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| quote: | Originally posted by Maaz
Well, these restricting concepts are not particularly Western, but rather something that is part of any conservative group. That's how genres are born: first, there's an original genre. It's got its rules, structure and motifs. Then, a dissident group starts to change some aspects and slowly create a newer sound. Often, purists are against this new genre and the enthusiasts who created these modifications drift apart from their original genre, creating a new one, which explores these new characteristics that keep them together. This egocentric and megalomaniac attitude leads to an eventual saturation, which causes new dissidents to change whatever has been over-used and create yet another genre.
I'm sincerely interested in understanding more about it. I reckon that enviroment is essential for the creation of art, but being an outsider, there's no way I can understand it. Even though I live in a society that has been influenced by the Dutch invasions a long time ago (my accent still has traces from flemmish), and that is a blending of cultures all over the world (not only because of colonisation, but because we have a huge amount of foreigners in my city), I still find epic trance extremely Central-European, with its roots essentially linked to European classical music and German early trance. |
But they are Western here though, even if not necessarily all structured music is Western. I think you answered your own question: I still find epic trance extremely Central-European, with its roots essentially linked to European classical music and German early trance.
Trance follows the ABA formula in a parallel way to minuets and waltzes, it doesn't get more Western, and particularly Central European, than that. I bet you can also tell apart the basic differences between German and Dutch trance in general right? Well, these differences are due to many factors in their own histories and environments, even if these two countries share borders.
| quote: | I'm looking forward to reading that 
(It's not in that article you wrote, in which you used my map, is it? It was an interesting piece of work, but since I read it a long time ago, I'm bound to forget things)
[quote]Rock is not formulaic: although you have a wider range of opportunities with electronic music, it doesn't mean there's no evolution in music that don't use such features. Otherwise, why would rock have so many sub-genres?
Same for pop (which is often a form of electronic music, but with a different purpose), hip hop (which is yet another form of electronic music) and any other genre that doesn't need computers to exist. |
No no, I never said rock or pop were formulaic, I just said that I didn't understand them while growing up (I do like some now). What I meant was that I didn't get into trance through a gateway, the MTV formula of mainstream music.
| quote: | | The problem with epic and anthem trance nowadays is that it's been raped by its own formula: the over-use of epic tracks in a live set led to a competition for what track would be reminded by listeners. This led to a megalomaniac and competitive behaviour from producers (Tijs included), while the goal of dancing music is making people dance (which seems to have been forgotten). |
Yeah that's true, but the priority of european trance djs is to shock with melodrama and to induce senses into a trance. Dancing is not more, or less, important than that goal. That melodrama formula is more Wagnerian than poppy, because the mainstream public doesn't have the patience or the attention span to wait for such a long breakdown. The derivative stale formula has been raped to death, but there are still possibilities of innovation left in its history. Take for example Traffic, you have to admit that that's a very unique use of the formula which prioritizes dancing again and is also evidence of further transculturation through fusion and evolution with other movements of dance music.
| quote: | Classics are not personal, but part of history. Dance2trance's "We come in Peace" is a classic, because it was a very important tune for the development of trance, and it will always be, you like it or not. System F's Exhale and Rank 1's Airwave are not: they didn't add anything to the history of electronic music, did they? Don't confuse classics with favourites...
I like Exhale, but I'm completely aware that it's no classic.
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I agree with that, but there's an ongoing debate on literature academia about what makes a classic and there's no consensus. Borges wrote a great essay about it, i should read it again...For me Exhale is no classic, not even close. But some Dutch trance anthems from 1997-1999 will have to be categorized as classics for the sake of history and the impact they had on the development of european trance, regardless of whether they are stale and derivative.
| quote: | Originally posted by Ishkur
Basically any trance that I have makes me forget about what's coming. That was kind of the point of electronic music in the first place, no? That it was repetitive because you were living for the NOW, what the track was doing right this moment. Not waiting for what it might do, or what it could do, or for some crescending climax to tell you what it's doing. Living, dancing, feeling for the moment. |
Not waiting for what it might do, or what it could do, or for some crescending climax to tell you what it's doing.
This is precisely what made european trance so mindblowing back in the day. The tension it created with playing with the listeners expectations. What it could do or what it might do, because the decent brand of this type of trance is unpredictable. Dynamic changes, tempo changes, harmonic patterns and deceptive cadences that are created between the counterpoint of the bassline and the lead: These are all possible factors that can't be randomized or made up through an instant anthem making formula if you want to end up with a decent product. Good djs can come up with a decent mix if they use this factors intelligently, which is much more important for me than beatmatching. It's all about the creation of tension through timing, both in production and in the decks. The stale low brow kind that is being exploited today is quite the opposite.
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