quote:

Originally posted by Dervish Look just trust me (don't if you don't want to I'm beginning not to care) these are professional soliders. But not only that these are resonable responcible people. They didn't say "Thouse fucking yanks are pyscos" they said things like "I'm really concerned about the way the American forces do things. Some of their reactions to threats or even PERCIVED threats are completely disproptionate.". And they want to go back as soon as possible one was home cos he was injured and when I asked him he said he'd prefer to be back with his unit.

Who do you think they're targetting over there for attacks? US Troops or British troops? Im pretty sure they know who is who by the uniforms. They know they'll get more of a reaction by attacking US forces. Who do you think is going to be a little more jumpy?

How would you live over there if things were like that?
Laying around sunbathing all day? Sipping tea? relaxing?
I dont see how you can think they are over reacting.

___________________
I've never felt alone... 'Till I met you

quote:

Originally posted by xKaoSx Or maybe your friends are just bitter because they dont want to be there and US troops are drawing out their stay.

Or maybe they are bitter that they are as much as a target of American bullets as Iraqis are?!

quote:

Originally posted by NYCTrancefan C'mon I'm sure a couple of the Brits can be sent to Fallujah, compared to Basra that is hell. I know what you mean though, all of these things get political in the end. Either way I just hope the violence dies down so both can get the hell out of there sooner than later.

What good are a few troops going to do?

They'd still be under US control, and it is this control that the whole issue is over

___________________
"Paul Simon" Progressive mixes available at www.diehardclubbers.co.uk

quote:

Originally posted by Dervish PS Why do you always use a dictonary in disscussions instead of any kind of arguement? I'll tell you why cos you don't have one.

It's not a dictionary, it's a page on logical fallacies. And I post the links in the hope of educating people like you on what a fallacy is and why it's inadmissible as an argument in any debate, in the blind hope that you may actually take it to heart and learn to construct a real argument with real logic.

George's response was great though. Didn't even bother with the standard rhetoric, just instantly blurted out insults.

___________________
My party schedule:
2009-02-21 - DJ Attention @ I'm So Popular
2009-06-18 - DJ Annoying @ People Need To Know Where I'll Be
2012-11-32 - DJ Insufferable ɸ Or At Least the Stalkers I Complain About
2048-06-66 - Spastic & Whocares ¶ Although I'm Actually Flattered
9999-45-81 - Tweaker Gimp ☼ I Probably Won't Even Go To This But I Have To Make Sure I Fill Up All The Available Space Here

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Oh I totally agree with what you are saying, and after all, there is only one source quoted. But you are looking at what is said in the actual article, but ignoring where it has come from. The paper this article appears in is extremely significant for what we are debating. Now of course, ths could be one man and one view, but you have to at least acknowledge the fact that there is a good possibility, due to the nature of where the article appeared, that this view could be from a far wider section of the establishment than just one man There is an equally good chance that this is a general view across the establishment as there is that this view is just that of one man...

The significance is all relative to who you are and where you live.
I can see how you would take this one paper seriously but it's one paper and there is a lot of assumptions being made.

One person forms a thought, a group of people make a statement.

___________________
I've never felt alone... 'Till I met you

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Or maybe they are bitter that they are as much as a target of American bullets as Iraqis are?!

You cant SERIOUSLY believe British troops are at equal risk over there as US troops? Sure they are at risk but they dont have as big a target as the US troops over there.

___________________
I've never felt alone... 'Till I met you

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut It's not a dictionary, it's a page on logical fallacies. And I post the links in the hope of educating people like you on what a fallacy is and why it's inadmissible as an argument in any debate, in the blind hope that you may actually take it to heart and learn to construct a real argument with real logic. George's response was great though. Didn't even bother with the standard rhetoric, just instantly blurted out insults.

But I've repeatedly told you it's not from one source. It's from multiple first hand sources. As for taking things to heart and listening why don't you try it? And I still don't get what your arguement is?

Edit: I mean has anyone here been to Iraq and seen this (i.e. first hand)? No so according to you we can't talk about it.... But I've staed things from people who have and you've paid no attention to them....... you know why becuase you are ignorant..... go look that up

___________________
If you can read this, I'm seriously fucking bored.

quote:

Originally posted by Dervish But I've repeatedly told you it's not from one source. It's from multiple first hand sources. As for taking things to heart and listening why don't you try it? And I still don't get what your arguement is?

Identify these first hand sources please, along with their credentials. Otherwise you're just handing us the same Anonymous Authority fallacy.

Just saying "I have friends" isn't an argument. The burden of proof is always on the person making an assertion, which in this case is you. So let's hear it, where's your proof?

___________________
My party schedule:
2009-02-21 - DJ Attention @ I'm So Popular
2009-06-18 - DJ Annoying @ People Need To Know Where I'll Be
2012-11-32 - DJ Insufferable ɸ Or At Least the Stalkers I Complain About
2048-06-66 - Spastic & Whocares ¶ Although I'm Actually Flattered
9999-45-81 - Tweaker Gimp ☼ I Probably Won't Even Go To This But I Have To Make Sure I Fill Up All The Available Space Here

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Identify these first hand sources please, along with their credentials. Otherwise you're just handing us the same Anonymous Authority fallacy. Just saying "I have friends" isn't an argument. The burden of proof is always on the person making an assertion, which in this case is you. So let's hear it, where's your proof?

I bet you were one of those numbnutz that believed messr Bush and co when they said "THEY HAVE WMD's BUT WE CANT SHOW YOU THE EVIDENCE COS WE HAVE TO PROTECT OUR SOURCES!!!"

___________________
Sig is 3.5 times, the limit, sort it out - torontotrance

quote:

Originally posted by Spankster I bet you were one of those numbnutz that believed messr Bush and co when they said "THEY HAVE WMD's BUT WE CANT SHOW YOU THE EVIDENCE COS WE HAVE TO PROTECT OUR SOURCES!!!"

And you're basing this claim on what exactly?

I "believed" that there was the possibility of them having WMDs, since there had been prior evidence of WMDs and less-than-complete evidence (at that time) to indicate their extinction. Obviously, as more and more evidence mounted up that the WMDs were nonexistent, I took that evidence into account and became equally skeptical.

Obviously no one is immune to personal bias, but I tend to do my best to look at the evidence and make an informed decision, even if it doesn't agree with what I "believe".

___________________
My party schedule:
2009-02-21 - DJ Attention @ I'm So Popular
2009-06-18 - DJ Annoying @ People Need To Know Where I'll Be
2012-11-32 - DJ Insufferable ɸ Or At Least the Stalkers I Complain About
2048-06-66 - Spastic & Whocares ¶ Although I'm Actually Flattered
9999-45-81 - Tweaker Gimp ☼ I Probably Won't Even Go To This But I Have To Make Sure I Fill Up All The Available Space Here

Andrew T (I don't want to say his full name cos I haven't asked him about saying anything to anyone) who is in the Britsh Marines (reserve actually) whos been in Basara on two seperate stints, he lives across the road from me(my home town I mean I'm at uni) and has done since I was born. Is the one I know best.

Others include another Marine but I don't trust him so much cos he's a bit of an arse (he could exagerate a bit maybe), who is more a mate of a mate but I've spoken to him about it too. I don't know which part of Iraq he was in.

And another who hasn't been in Iraq but does know people who are there and knows the way the American military works.

Now ok if you want to be picky about it you can chalk off 2 of them esspecially the second (although he's a very resonable person). But lets put it this way I'd give much more credance to anything any of them say than anything anyone who isn't involved would say. And to say that they have no idea or would lie for no reson is wrong. And so to simple go "fallacy!" to ANY source basicly isn't going to be very constructive in a disscussion is it?

___________________
If you can read this, I'm seriously fucking bored.