you know what kills me, is that if you want to get to the core of it all, you would ban serving alcohol inside bars, and stop smoking outside to make people really stop drinkin and smoking...

They are working on banning smoking on patios in Toronto as we speak. And they have already banned all outdoor smoking on some school campuses in Canada and the US.

This is why im against ANY new laws. Because the zealots will just push for more and more.

Which schools and ages of these schools are having laws permitted against them? I doubt the outdoor smoking ban will ever succeed in the near time future.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 Because theyd rather make money from condos and industry. The government would love it if bars closed. Especially clubs.

That's just idiotic...they make a fortune in tax revenue from bars and clubs...not to mention the benefits to other sectors of the economy like public transportation, taxis, hotels, restaurants, stores, etc. Not everyone that parties in Toronto, for example, lives here.

I just read an article on this issue and they interviewed a Toronto bar owner who used to have a bar/restaurant in NYC...he said the smoking ban did not destroy his business...there was a short adjustment period. Other small clubs here have been non-smoking for years and are still packed on the weekend...people will adapt.

Face it...this is less an economic argument than a "freedom to smoke wherever I want" argument from smokers, which is ludicrous. I can't drink or have sex, both legal activities, wherever I want, so why the fuck should people be able to smoke wherever they want???. It's smokers pissing and moaning that they can't light up wherever and whenever they please and bar/club/restaurant owners that don't want to have to modify their business to accomodate the law.

BTW...bars/clubs are NOT responsible for policing/enforcing the non-smoking law!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They MUST post signs, they MUST discourage it, they MUST not serve anyone that is not complying with the law...but they don't have to throw anyone out because of it. They don't even HAVE to call the police. This isn't as oppressive on the owners/managers as people are making it out to be.

Cities that have implemented similar non-smoking laws have seen a drop off in smoking overall (judged by cigarette sales declining, I presume) and eventually people get used to it and either don't smoke when they go out or they smoke outside.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 They are working on banning smoking on patios in Toronto as we speak. And they have already banned all outdoor smoking on some school campuses in Canada and the US. This is why im against ANY new laws. Because the zealots will just push for more and more.

you can't smoke on school property, that's nothing new. you are so full of shit.

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Originally posted by Matt you can't smoke on school property, that's nothing new. you are so full of shit.

Hmmm i'm not 100% sure but it doesn't look to me like he was saying it was a new thing...

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Whatever it may take I keep on trying.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 This is why im against ANY new laws. Because the zealots will just push for more and more.

yeah, because one day people might...OMG NOT SMOKE

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Let me address a few things here

First, the city government would rather have condos and industries. Why? because they dont give a flying fuck about businesses and what occupies business space. To them, whether its a club, a nail salon, or a clothes store they still get the same revenue for property tax. The city however will make a fortune from condo levies, education charges and property taxes with respect to condos. Not to mention all the user fees that they can charge new residents.

In the city's eyes, having places that could potentially disrupt a residential zone is a bad thing. Theyd much rather have lets say a clothing store than a nightclub.

Have you ever tried opening a business like say just a normal restaurant with no alchohol? Well i have and let me tell you that city council will make it as difficult as possible. They dont care how many people you employ, what kinds of sales you do etc. Why? because its the feds and the province that get all that money from sales taxes and income taxes. This is why city councils are the ones that pass all these restrictive laws. Im willing to bet that if city council received part of the sales taxes, or income taxes that were made in their jurisdiction, they would change their anti-bussiness tune quite a bit.

#2 in respect to schools. Im talking about campuses of universities where they have outright banned smoking. You cant even smoke on the football field for example.

#3 my problem with all this banning whether its smoking, tanning beds etc is where does it end? The ban brigade is out of control. Whats next? i can forsee them banning outdoor bbqs and gas powered motors at the rate we are going. Honestly, this is not the Canada i want to live in.

Im for smoking laws to a point. I agree that smoking should not be allowed in most public places such as hospitals, malls, and even most restaurants. However, a nightclub, strip joint, restaurant/bar is a purely OPTIONAL ADULT place. If there should be a smoking law here, it should be that smoking establishments designed for ADULTS display a sign at the front door that declares it a smoking establishment. This gives the ADULT patron the right to decide whether or not he/she wished to enter the establishment.

Nobody is forcing you to go to a club. And if there were truely a demand for non smoking clubs they would exist.

As for the employee arguement. This is complete bullshit. There are plenty of jobs out there. Nobody ever forced me to work for a club. Im a non-smoker who works at a club. Who ever asked me if i wanted to be protected from this? If they had come to me (and many people like me) they would have discovered that we'd rather have job security.

ADULTS should be allowed to make ADULT decisions. Im sick of the government thinking that they know best and constantly trying to save us from ourselves and treating me like im a child who knows nothing.

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Originally posted by Rodrico Hi all non smokers, ............. You can take away my smoke, but you'll never take away MY FREEDOM!

if i ever meet u, drinks on me

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Originally posted by DJ El Kay Dee if i ever meet u, drinks on me

Becareful what you say, I might take you up on that..

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Originally posted by Matt you can't smoke on school property, that's nothing new. you are so full of shit.

he's talking about university/college not HS.