quote:

Originally posted by MaxTO My buddy bought a used Z24 (not sure what year, but it's a quite recent model). Nothing but headaches. In the 2 years (maybe a bit less) that he's had the car, they had to re-build the engine, do a lot of suspension work, fix the brakes numerous times and quite a few other smaller problems. He is cursing at the car everyday. I drive a '99 Corolla (bought brand new) and the only problem I encountered was a blown water pump last winter. They fixed it free of charge under warranty. The few times that I've driven a rental, usually a domestic car like a cavalier, I couldn't wait to get back behind the wheel of my own car.

We bought the car in 98' brand new with 500km, now it has 209,000km. I was stupid when I first got my licence and drove the shit out of the car, trying to race it *rolls eyes* lol! I was young lol. Anyway, the entire car got facked. Had to replace the transmission, cluch, flywheel, headgasket (been replaced twice already lol), shifter cables, speed sensor, brakes were facked, spark plugs and wires (twice), and tires. I'm sure theres other stuff, I just dont remember it all.

I cant wait for the day when I have a car that idels quietly, doesnt really have any problems, starts perfectly, good on gas, and I can drive it not having to worry about anything.

Ok.

I drive a Civic. (lets get that out there..mine was built in Ohio actually.hrmmm) my family has owned chryslers for years though. (new 300c is uber hawt!) neww stang redisgen is decent...Im really happy they fixed the interior though. what a pos the old ones were.

However domestics arent piles of shit. They have grown leaps and bounds from years past (especially chryslers). They can/are quite reliable cars. Now obviously they do have more problems then imports do. Its just that way howver the gap is getting smaller.

There interiors leave some to be desired(especially from pontiac) but as long as it works and doesnt rattle like a tin can then all thats left is subjective.

as for low end torque or high end hp/torque.

we could argue till they closed this place down

both are good. what I find funny is people who drive cars with a big motor with lots down low complain about the higher peak numbers of the smaller motors like you have to drive around revving the thing to 8000 rpm to keep up with traffic..which is certainley not the case at all.
Take a look at dynos. a motor like a b16/b18c that honda produces that comes in(the integra, civic SiR) etc (or the new K series motors) and youll see some of the FLATEST torque curves around.

sure they dont make 5 billion ft lbs but dont really need to/cant. They are small motors. displacment= torque.

The flat torque curve and shorter geared trannies allow the motors to function juust fine in the lower revs.

they also have plenty of mid range for most situations youll come across in daily use. could they benefit from some more torque..yeah for sure but its not needed and would probably make it get worse gas mileage..something the more low end torque motors have shitty already

when you can/want to open it up. the revs will climb quickly and evenly thanks to the flat torque curve(and short gears).

revving at 3500 rpm on the highway isnt a big deal really. in a big motor'd car where you redline at 6k (and most the revs are kept lower most of the time) it might seem like a big deal but its not.they are after all designed with high revs in mind and will last just as long if not longer then lower revving v8's.

and no a longer final gear wouldnt necessarly improve gas mileage in these motors.


hp=torque x rpm divided by 5252.

Id love to drive a corvette/camaro but alas its too much money for me right now. id love the torque of the ls1(also has a great flat torque curve). but its more expensive every way you look at it.
the ls1 is a very reliable powerplant though!

even if we got into the costs of mods ... etc . still cheaper by far to play/learn on a cheaper 4 banger.
when im older and have more money Ill play with a v8.

as for cost for maitanance...i think the prices of most parts these days are quite comparable. (except the germans..they are still bloody pricey...or higher end jap cars). Its the domestics that are more prone to having to be fixed in the first place that makes them pricier in some cases. obviously there are exceptions on either side.


a civic isnt a boring car... just cause it doenst have a boatload of torque makes it boring? ive driven many a mustang and you know what..that truley is a boring car to drive(stock.) Put some mods into it and its definately better. (civic too) but imo the stang wakes up more cause its sooooooooooo boring to start with.


all the suv's with big v8's are lame imo. cool if you have a purpose to use it but most dont.
Oil is a non renuable energy source after all.




the is300 doesnt beat everything german on the road..
the is is a huge disappoint especially for the money. its really priced to high...hit and miss on that one imo.

the vibe is basically a toyota (like people mentioned) . nothing wrong with the car really in terms of reliability.

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Trance in my pants

Last edited by Euphorica on Apr-18-2005 at 06:47

quote:

Originally posted by Mandrick_v lol, when you guys are saying that you love Japaneese cars like Honda, all I can do is lauph. 90% (including engine and tranny)of parts you see in every 'Japaneese' car is produced either in Ontario or Michigan. My dad is a truck driver and the company he works for is a carrier of car parts. All the cars that we see on the roads are produced domesticly. So how is Civic more Japaneese then Cavalier. Both of them made by Americans from American parts. Lets take Ford for example. Mazda 6 is produced on the ford plant in michigan that produces Tauruses. Ford owns Mazda and Mazda is a great way for them to make money. Mazda is considered non domestic vehicle there fore they can boost up the price on it dramatically. Another downside on Japaneese cars is lack of hp and tourqe at normal rpm. Supped up civic can be 190hp at what, 9000 rpm. LMAO, who is going to drive the car at 9000 rpm at this gas prices and how long will that engine last. Ya they are easier to fix (some you say), well, how many of us fix the cars themselves. If you take a car to mechanic for some reason domestic cars are cheaper to fix then Japaneese, why is that? Aren't Japaneese cars easier to fix? I drove regular civic si (I own Z24, 2002) and what a contrast compared to cavalier. If you are going uphill, you have to press that pedal in order for the car to move. You have to floor it to feel some power. I think Japaneese cars are in such a demand only cos it is part of culture. It is just cool to have Japaneese car "Hands Down". Oh yeah, don't forget the Type R sticker and huge and loud exaust, that will give you another 25 hp at 9000 rpm.

Laugh all you want. Honda is still an "import". I know my accord was built in michigan with parts that were also made in NA. Ingenuity is not based on geographic location. Fact is, "Imports" last longer and are built better. In all my and my friends / family experiences, domestic are shit. even the high end ones.

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Any opinions on SAABs?

quote:

Originally posted by MaxTO Any opinions on SAABs?

When people tell you that they're "quirky," they just mean "piece of shit." Save for the new 9-2X which is nothing more than a Subaru Impreza wagon with Saab clothing, Saabs aren't really great vehicles. Overpriced, but they are gorgeous to look at.

I'd really like a 9-3 Aero convertible in their Saab Lime Green Metallic.

Long story short, don't buy a Saab unless you get a 9-2x Aero or a 9-3 Viggen (preferably the latter).

quote:

Originally posted by fn_xtc ummm...ok!

race race race.

(j/k)

quote:

Originally posted by VERTiG0 9-3 Viggen (preferably the latter).

The 9-3 viggen is nice...but i've always felt that Saab (in general) are underpowered, and somewhat subtle to look at. Plus they are under the 'GM' belt..so pass. Then again, this is my opinion only. Others may think different.

quote:

Originally posted by StereoPrincess race race race.

Who me?? race..never!! I do not encourage such actions!

quote:

Originally posted by fn_xtc but i've always felt that Saab (in general) are underpowered, and somewhat subtle to look at.

There's only so much power you can put down to the front wheels without having ridiculous torque steer (which the Viggen has in droves, unfortunately), but I have to say I enjoy their subtle looks, inconspicuously quick cars. Like the new GTO. Looks like a fat Crapalier, but goes like bat out of hell in a straight line.

hey the gto is hawt! just needs to get a holden front bumper on it to fix up the grand prix looks

you can never have too much power..even to the front wheels.

nevAAAAAAAAAAAAR!

www.fastestfwdstreetcars.com (yes street cars)

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Trance in my pants

quote:

Originally posted by VERTiG0 There's only so much power you can put down to the front wheels without having ridiculous torque steer (which the Viggen has in droves, unfortunately), but I have to say I enjoy their subtle looks, inconspicuously quick cars. Like the new GTO. Looks like a fat Crapalier, but goes like bat out of hell in a straight line.

mate, I want to ask you;
what would you say is a European "best buy" car/model?

quote:

Originally posted by bass drive mate, I want to ask you; what would you say is a European "best buy" car/model?

none. European car makers are in a funk now, they're even worse than North American cars.


well, except for these babies:

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Nathan Fake - Outhouse (Valentino Kanzyani Remix) || ID PLZ! PVD ID!!!
Disco and classical had sex while watching a sci-fi movie. Their child: trance.

quote:

Originally posted by ShadoWolf none. European car makers are in a funk now, they're even worse than North American cars.

are you kidding?
most European cars are having good new models (except for the VW & Opel imo, touareg is nice though)

no way American cars are better

I still love BMW 530i 2003 model the most though