I wonder if there are any kinds of music or parties that are marketed solely by word of mouth anymore.

Wasnt that what underground meant? spreading by only word of mouth?

I just dont see what is so special about it when we realize that all underground is, is just people who are lucky enough to be in touch with each other.

this underground vs pop stuff is silly. I tend to agree that underground, personal, word of mouth style marketing tends to lead to more sincere and authentic recomendations.

But we have changed the ways that information circualted in such a way that 'underground' is all but destroyed. Nothing can make it out there, mobilize enough kids to a party, or generate enough cash to break even on word of mouth alone. Since underground has been lost, everyone has been trying to market, everyone designing their sound to be widely enjoyable, everyone has gone pop, they just take different approaches at it, and are designed to attract different sorts of crowds, no particular crowd being superior to any other.

so what if the tune isnt full of vocals, strings, and has an epic stucture.

it is still pop, it is still depending on marketing hype to spread, it is no more 'underground' than any other style, it just appeals to a different group of fans.

It really sucks, the whole rave idea seemed to be a resistance to this kind of situation, a re-claiming of what was lost, but the marketing has taken it all away again. Rave seemed to be people rising to define their own culture instead of being pushed into one, but the world has capitalized on the culture, it doesnt exist anymore, underground is dead.

Techno is not any more underground than anything else, it has its fads, its pop style leanings and exagerations of its stereotypical elements, and it doesnt rely on word of mouth to spread anymore, it relies on hype, one could even argue that techno is more popish then trance, because not only does it rely on hype, but also contorversy.

I know everyone is familiar with the huge ego techno dj attitude, they piss people off for money, its a marketing technique to get attention right before their tune releases, it is no more authentic and underground than a fluffy vocal and a supersaw.

but still, we come on here and play "my shit doesnt stink" every day.

All of us are listening to pop music.

My shit stinks... Just. Alittle. Bit.

quote:

Originally posted by Haak dave, vandit isn't underground!

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There's a simple equation that you can use to compute how underground you are...

If you have more than three remixes of Schnappi and you live outside of Germany then you are classified as underground.

If you have the Huygens space probe descent recordings in your playlist then you are classified as Uber Underground.

If you have a Trance Remix of any Howard Jones track, then you are Ultra Underground.

If you have Matt Adams - Dido Sand in My Shoes remix, and you've re-recorded it at a higher pitch, then you are Penultimate Underground

and you are in the zenith of Underground if you have Front 242 - Rhythm of Time (Victor the Cleaner mix by the Orb)

Lastly you've come full circle if you just can't get enough of Bob the Builder - Theme (Hardstyle Meets Garage Remix).mp3

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lol

NO genres are set in stone. I've heard artists call themselves one thing and then have other music enthuseists (sp?) call them another.

No genre has a specific pattern because you always hear people describing artists differently. I may call New Order retro whereas you may call them rock and roll or electro, it doesn't make any of us wrong nor does it make us right.

Is there a difference between Corsten and DJ Sami? Hell yes, just like there's a difference between Armin van Buuren and Paul van Dyk or Leama & Moor and Luke Chable. Are they different genres? No one can say. You could potentialy say they're rock and roll and possibly come up with some shadow of an argument for it and why? Because rock and roll, much like all other genres, have no specific definition.

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i'll go out on a limb, and say i'm more underground than probably 97% of the TA members here.

thanks for reading

>JM<

quote:

it doesn't really matter what artists call themselves, the music is a certain style no matter what they call it.

So you're telling me that you grow up wanting to become a rock star, you play covers of rock songs and write what you think are rock lyrics, that will appeal to rock fans and you consider yourself a rock group but then you end up being jazz music. Give me a break, it doesn't matter what ANYONE calls the style because no one person can say for sure

quote:

no, you always hear people describing artists differently usually because most people, like you, aren't educated enough (or not at all) in music theory and EDM in general to put into words the differences between genres and subgenres. so you constantly rant on and on about how nobody (i.e. YOU) can correctly classify genres, because you always hear other idiots describing things they have no business trying to describe in the first place.

I never said I can't see the difference and there's no proof of that anywhere in what I said. So who sets out these boundries between genres? If one artists invents a genre then no one but them should be able to properly classify what does and doesn't fall under that category, otherwise it's up to a persons opinon. You could get technical and say "well trance is a 4x4 beat bla bla bla" or something along those lines, but it doesn't mean you're right.

If everything has a genre then why are things so complicated? Why is DJ Sami called trance by some and techno or dance by others? Why does amazon.com list certain albums under multiple sections? I mean anyone who knows their shit (and one would assume a corporation like amazon.com would) would have it placed in the right category right? Ya, that's what I thought.

quote:

and yet somehow i said they're the same genre and came up with a visible argument for it, because epic trance DOES have a specific definition, as does every other genre and subgenre. just because you're not educated enough to figure out why one genre is different from another doesn't mean they aren't. if you look up at the sky on a cloudy day, all the clouds just look random and unorganized, but you'd be surprized to know that every single one of them has a specific scientific name. and there is even a classification for electronic music that can't be classified, it's called IDM

I'm still wondering how you got the me being uneducated bit by me simply saying that with so many genres and subgenres being created that I doubt that you can fit every single song into just 1 category. I think that you're the one who isn't very educated, if you don't think so then provide me concrete proof that I'm completely wrong and you're completely right, otherwise your words are meaningless to me because you're just talking out of your ass.

Concrete proof otherwise don't even bother replying

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quote:

Originally posted by Blue. So you're telling me that you grow up wanting to become a rock star, you play covers of rock songs and write what you think are rock lyrics, that will appeal to rock fans and you consider yourself a rock group but then you end up being jazz music. Give me a break, it doesn't matter what ANYONE calls the style because no one person can say for sure

IF THEY DID ALL THAT SHIT FIRST, THEN IT'S PROBABLY ROCK AND NOT JAZZ. or else they're unimaginably stupid or antisocial for listening to jazz music their entire lives and calling it rock in the world of radio and mtv, where everyone knows what rock music is.

quote:

So who sets out these boundries between genres?

genre names are created and used to describe kinds of music that have a common discernable sound and structure.

quote:

You could get technical and say "well trance is a 4x4 beat bla bla bla" or something along those lines, but it doesn't mean you're right.

yeah I could get all technical and tell you what trance is, but it doesn't mean i'm right huh. i guess i should just tell you that heaven is trance because i think it is, and you're wrong because you think it isn't. but then i would be the idiot.

quote:

Why is DJ Sami called trance by some and techno or dance by others?

because most people are ignorant of edm to the point where they don't know the difference.

quote:

Why does amazon.com list certain albums under multiple sections? I mean anyone who knows their shit (and one would assume a corporation like amazon.com would) would have it placed in the right category right?

please give me a good reason why a corporation like amazon should be assumed to "know their shit", especially about obscure genres of music.

quote:

Concrete proof otherwise don't even bother replying

i won't offer you concrete proof, i'll offer you concrete logic: most music fans are uneducated in musical theory and history yet still feel the need to classify the music they listen to, so inevitably due to their lack of education and historical knowledge discrepencies will arise

Last edited by Aiwendil on Apr-24-2005 at 07:09

quote:

Originally posted by auranaut And lookie, you can't prove me wrong.

Haha! You seem to have conveniently forgotten that you proved yourself wrong by claiming Tiësto - Traffic was no different to DJ Sammy - Heaven. How I laughed.

quote:

Originally posted by Aiwendil and yet somehow i said they're the same genre and came up with a visible argument for it, because epic trance DOES have a specific definition, as does every other genre and subgenre. just because you're not educated enough to figure out why one genre is different from another doesn't mean they aren't.

It's funny how you go on about being "educated enough to figure out why one genre is different from another" yet you yourself can't work out the difference between electro trance and euro dance/scouse house.

But I must congratulate you on being able to put together a vaguely coherent argument, unlike auranaut

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, who really cares?

If elitist losers want to flame people who are actually enjoying music more than themselves (Rather than standing at the bar chinstroking whilst deconstructing every track to see if it is worthy of their mp3 playlists ), let them do it.

Like what you want at the end of the day, it doesnt really matter what other people think, unless you feel that you are defined by what others think of you and your tastes, which is a hell of a shallow life to lead.

I know what I like, and I do so regardless of what other people think, and should I like something euphoric and pumping, which is considered cheese and makes me a n00b regardless of almost a decade of EDM loving, all that matters is that I like it.

Btw, auranaut and Aiwendil, are you guys alias's of older members perchance? Just asking as some of the posts seem to be more like older members who have becomed disillusioned with much they used to love in the late 90's rather than people just new into the scene who generally have only had exposure to the more accessable EDM (and get flamed for this).

Also, to say DJ Sammy - Heaven and something like Lost Tribe - Gamemaster are comparable is utterly laughable.

Want to be really underground? Here's a shovel, 6 feet would be greatly appreciated.

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Last edited by kr00t0n on Apr-24-2005 at 10:03

quote:

Originally posted by Tranc3 I predict a few more pages of pseudo-intelligent posts talking about society's behaviors on the marco and microscopic levels, followed by a flame war on one of the following: 1) Tiesto 2) Armin Van Buuren 3) Good old-fashioned character bashing I guess what I'm trying to say is... Who gives a fuck? Stop taking the intarnet so seriously. If you enjoy dressing up like Britney Spears and dancing with a cardboard cutout of Justin Timberlake, then hell, I'm not gonna stop you, in fact I'll probably laugh at you, but I won't try to stop you.

Ding ding ding. We have a winner!

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