quote:

Originally posted by occrider Wow, we're you a member of your party when it so solidly embraced Kerry's "flip-flops" as if it were manna from heaven?

I still think Kerry should be tried for treason.

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka I still think Kerry should be tried for treason.

Yea well, I still think Bush should be fired for incompetance so ...

___________________
Retro ...

quote:

Originally posted by occrider Yea well, I still think Bush should be fired for incompetance so ...

owned!

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka Not to stoke up an argument, but you continue to criticize "talking points" from the right as if they are irrelevant simply because they are talking points, yet notice nobody gives you shit for quoting Ted Kennedy of all people.

I was quotin' Ted? Man, I don't read anything from that guy. If he says the same stuff I'm peddlin' at times, that's fine. I really don't have much of an opinion of the guy, though. I know you GOP boys demonize Ted as much as possible - but honestly I don't know why nor do I have much of a wit to care what he says. Oh well.

quote:

On September 30, 2003, when Bush was first asked about the leak, here is what he said: "If there is a leak out of my administration, I want to know who it is. And if the person has violated law, the person will be taken care of." Essentially the same thing he is saying now. Oh gee, you mean Dubya's not gonna let someone be tried by the media? What a novel idea.

Eh, Occ beat me to it. I'm merely using Bush's words against him. Nothin' new - just playin' politics here .

quote:

Furthermore, do you really think Judith Miller is protecting Karl Rove?

Bottom line is we don't know enough about what Miller's protecting - that much has clearly not come out in the press (nor does it seem to have come out in court either, but who knows). Therefore it is merely idle speculation. I will say, however, that I personally agree with Occ's sentiments on Miller, and frankly she can rot in jail for all I care. For her to peddle the bullshit propaganda from Chalabi to the press, and for this Administration to cite her bullshit propaganda coming straight from Chalabi's mouth on Iraq and WMD arsenal (which oh so surprisingly most of this Administration are very close to Chalabi as well, strange that!) WITHOUT further investigation on her part should be nothing shy of a crime in of itself.

But as it stands, it was the complete epitomy of modern day investigative journalism - intellectually and willfully lazy as fuck.

quote:

I mean seriously, is this what you want to lose sleep over at night? Moving the goal posts maybe an inch or two at best? You're going to die of a heart attack at 35 if you get that worked up over such minor issue that amounts to little more than some twisting of words.

Jesus, you're beginning to know me all too well. Here's a kicker for you - my nickname in college from my roomies was Heart-Attack, to which they'd endlessly and relentlessly play that fucking Beastie Boys song (Heart Attack Man) until I'd fucking explode. I kinda had this bad habit of goin' ballistic on things that annoyed the fuck out of me - which pretty much most things did at that time.

I know, hard to imagine, right?

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

Funny thing happened on the way to the office. Newspapers are all beginning to dogfight over this story. Fucking beautiful!:

NYTimes, baby!:

quote:

At the same time in July 2003 that a C.I.A. operative's identity was exposed, two key White House officials who talked to journalists about the officer were also working closely together on a related underlying issue: whether President Bush was correct in suggesting earlier that year that Iraq had been trying to acquire nuclear materials from Africa.... People who have been briefed on the case said that the White House officials, Karl Rove and I. Lewis Libby Jr., were helping to prepare what became the administration's primary response to criticism that a flawed phrase about the nuclear materials in Africa had been included in Mr. Bush's State of the Union address six months earlier.... At the same time, they were grappling with the fallout from an Op-Ed article on July 6, 2003, in The New York Times by Mr. Wilson, a former diplomat, in which he criticized the way the administration had used intelligence to support the claim in Mr. Bush's speech. The work done by Mr. Rove and Mr. Libby on the Tenet statement, during this intense period, had not been previously disclosed.... The effort was particularly striking because to an unusual degree, the circle of administration officials involved included those from the White House's political and national security operations, which are often separately run. Both arms were drawn into the effort to defend the administration during the period. In another indication of how wide a net investigators have cast in the case, Karen Hughes, a former top communications aide to Mr. Bush, and Robert Joseph, who was then the National Security Council's weapons proliferation expert, have both told the Senate Foreign Relations Committee that they were interviewed by the special prosecutor. Ms. Hughes is to have her confirmation hearing on Friday on her nomination to lead the State Department's public diplomacy operation. Mr. Joseph was recently confirmed as undersecretary of state for arms control and international security. As part of their confirmation proceedings, both had to fill out a questionnaire listing any legal matters they had become involved in.... The investigators have been trying to determine who else within the administration might have seen the memo or learned of its contents. Among those asked if he had seen the memo was Ari Fleischer, then the White House press secretary, who was on Air Force One with Mr. Bush and Mr. Powell during the Africa trip right after Mr. Wilson's article appeared. Mr. Fleischer told the grand jury that he never saw the memo, a person familiar with the testimony said.... Mr. Rove has also told the grand jury that he never saw the memo, a person briefed on the case said. Democrats who have been eager to focus attention on the case have urged reporters to look into the role of a number of other administration officials, including John R. Bolton, who was then undersecretary of state for arms control and international security and has since been nominated by Mr. Bush to be ambassador to the United Nations. In his disclosure form for his Senate confirmation hearings, Mr. Bolton made no mention of having been interviewed in the case, a government official said. http://nytimes.com/2005/07/22/polit...lrKaWSrxAb/KXew

Oh boy oh boy! Call 'em off - Rove, Libby, Fleisher, Karen Hughes (teehee!), and Bolton! That's quite a round-up, y'all!

Next, Bloomberg (which has been on this story like flies on shit!):

quote:

Two top White House aides have given accounts to the special prosecutor about how reporters told them the identity of a CIA agent that are at odds with what the reporters have said, according to persons familiar with the case. Lewis “Scooter'’ Libby, Vice President Dick Cheney’s chief of staff, told special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald that he first learned from NBC News reporter Tim Russert of the identity of CIA agent Valerie Plame, the wife of former ambassador and Bush administration critic Joseph Wilson. Russert has testified before a federal grand jury that he didn’t tell Libby of Plame’s identity. White House Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove told Fitzgerald that he first learned the identity of the CIA agent from syndicated columnist Robert Novak, who was first to report Plame’s name and connection to Wilson. Novak, according to a source familiar with the matter, has given a somewhat different version to the special prosecutor. These discrepancies may be important because one issue Fitzgerald is investigating is whether Libby, Rove, or other administration officials made false statements during the course of the investigation. The Plame case has its genesis in whether any administration officials violated a 1982 law making it illegal to knowingly reveal the name of a CIA agent. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?...id=an7SakVWGrTQ

I smell perjury.

I posted in another thread this juicy bit from yesterday's WaPost:

quote:

A classified State Department memorandum central to a federal leak investigation contained information about CIA officer Valerie Plame in a paragraph marked "(S)" for secret, a clear indication that any Bush administration official who read it should have been aware the information was classified, according to current and former government officials. Plame -- who is referred to by her married name, Valerie Wilson, in the memo -- is mentioned in the second paragraph of the three-page document, which was written on June 10, 2003, by an analyst in the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR), according to a source who described the memo to The Washington Post. The paragraph identifying her as the wife of former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV was clearly marked to show that it contained classified material at the "secret" level, two sources said. The CIA classifies as "secret" the names of officers whose identities are covert, according to former senior agency officials. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...2002517_pf.html

Whaa? Did that darn "covert" word come back up again? Well gee, if the CIA AND the State Department thinks she's covert, and her status was clearly marked as such, I think we can finally put to rest this silly notion of her status.

And this also demonstrates that someone did, in fact, break the '82 law. So now we have the strong possibilities of both perjury, AND illegally outing a covert agent!

The media won't let up either. Note McClellan's Press gaggle yesterday:

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/e...t_id=1000989535

Oh, something else was important in that WaPost article:

quote:

Almost all of the memo is devoted to describing why State Department intelligence experts did not believe claims that Saddam Hussein had in the recent past sought to purchase uranium from Niger. Only two sentences in the seven-sentence paragraph mention Wilson's wife.... The material in the memo about Wilson's wife was based on notes taken by an INR analyst who attended a Feb. 19, 2002, meeting at the CIA where Wilson's intelligence-gathering trip to Niger was discussed. The memo was drafted June 10, 2003, for Undersecretary of State Marc Grossman, who asked to be brought up to date on INR's opposition to the White House view that Hussein was trying to buy uranium in Africa. The description of Wilson's wife and her role in the Feb. 19, 2002, meeting at the CIA was considered "a footnote" in a background paragraph in the memo, according to an official who was aware of the process. It records that the INR analyst at the meeting opposed Wilson's trip to Niger because the State Department, through other inquiries, already had disproved the allegation that Iraq was seeking uranium from Niger. Attached to the INR memo were the notes taken by the senior INR analyst who attended the 2002 meeting at the CIA.

So here we have the State Department claiming from the getgo that the Niger claims were bogus, dating ALL the way back to Feb. of '02. Of course this doesn't fit this Administration's notions, so they launch a coupla investigations to support their bogus notion - Wilson being on one of those. He comes back saying they are bullshit.

But of course that's just a mere handwave to the President. NOTHING was gonna stop him from fucking LYING to the people. You getting this yet, Republicans? They had direct evidence that this claim was complete bullshit. The CIA strenuously objected to Bush putting in this claim in his SOTU address. He pulled it out, only to reinsert it in at the last minute.

Now couple all this with what the Downing Street Memo had shown us. There's just no way to shake the fact that this entire debacle was deliberately sprung, counterevidence be damned. And they KNOWINGLY did it and WILLINGLY put aside facts that went against their assertions. Bush was going to war if it had to take the deliberate act of lying to the people to do it.

How proud you all must be of this guy you voted in.

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

Don't get saucy with me, Bernaise!

Ex-CIA Officers Rip Bush Over Rove Leak

By DONNA DE LA CRUZ, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - Former U.S. intelligence officers criticized President Bush on Friday for not disciplining Karl Rove in connection with the leak of the name of a CIA officer, saying Bush's lack of action has jeopardized national security.


In a hearing held by Senate and House Democrats examining the implications of exposing Valerie Plame's identity, the former intelligence officers said Bush's silence has hampered efforts to recruit informants to help the United States fight the war on terror. Federal law forbids government officials from revealing the identity of an undercover intelligence officer.

"I wouldn't be here this morning if President Bush had done the one thing required of him as commander in chief — protect and defend the Constitution," said Larry Johnson, a former CIA analyst. "The minute that Valerie Plame's identity was outed, he should have delivered a strict and strong message to his employees."

Rove, Bush's deputy chief of staff, told Time magazine reporter Matthew Cooper in a 2003 phone call that former U.S. Ambassador Joseph Wilson's wife worked for the CIA on weapons of mass destruction issues, according to an account by Cooper in the magazine. Rove has not disputed that he told Cooper that Wilson's wife worked for the agency, but has said through his lawyer that he did not mention her by name.

In July 2003, Robert Novak, citing unnamed administration officials, identified Plame by name in his syndicated column and wrote that she worked for the CIA. The column has led to a federal criminal investigation into who leaked Plame's undercover identity. New York Times reporter Judith Miller — who never wrote a story about Plame — has been jailed for refusing to testify.

Bush said last week, "I think it's best that people wait until the investigation is complete before you jump to conclusions. And I will do so, as well."

Dana Perino, a White House spokesman, said Friday that the administration would have no comment on the investigation while it was continuing.

Patrick Lang, a retired Army colonel and defense intelligence officer, said Bush's silence sends a bad signal to foreigners who might be thinking of cooperating with the U.S. on intelligence matters.

"This says to them that if you decide to cooperate, someone will give you up, so you don't do it," Lang said. "They are not going to trust you in any way."

Johnson, who said he is a registered Republican, said he wished a GOP lawmaker would have the courage to stand up and "call the ugly dog the ugly dog."

"Where are these men and women with any integrity to speak out against this?" Johnson asked. "I expect better behavior out of Republicans."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050722..._leak_democrats