quote:

Originally posted by ronk er what? they've started all the wars, in '21, '29 and '36 til '39. we did nothing to them, we didn't attack them, we've only defended our settlements. the policy of the jewish settlement leaders was DEFENCE and cooperation with the brits. the policy of the palestinians, led by Haj Amin Al Hussein, was attacking the brits and the jewish people.

At least Yoepus gives me a bit of a challenge!!

Who bombed the King David Hotel? And even Begin said that some of the massacres carried out by the Haganah were necessary!

Just out of interest Yoepus, what are your views on Jerusalem? Do you think Israel should have all of it, just the West, some kind of duel sovereignty or would you welcome an "international city"?

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Originally posted by George Smiley Who bombed the King David Hotel? And even Begin said that some of the massacres carried out by the Haganah were necessary!

ok let's clarify some things:
'21 riot: palestinians attack jews - 47 jews were killed and many injured, jews do nothing, brits limit the jews homeland rights in Churchill's white paper (1922).
'29 riot: palestinians attack jews - 133 jews were killed and many injured, jews do nothing, brits limit the jews homeland rights in Passfield's white paper (1930).
'36-'39 uprising: palestininas attack the brits and jews. they burn jews homes and destroy roads and british military stations, and blow up the Haifa-Iraq oil pipe. approx 450 jews were killed and many injured. the brits and jews reaction: they cooperate and form the jewish auxiliary forces and special night squads, which attacked the palestinians and killed terrorists.
in '37, some people from the Hagana branched off and formed the IZL - Irgun Zvai Leumi, which was discontented from the defence (or, restrain) policy of the jewish settlement.
in '39, after McDonald's white paper, which limited the jews homeland rights to HELL, the jewish settlement stopped the cooperation with the brits, and started an illegal immigrations and demonstrations against the brits.
now, there are 3 sides who fight each other in Israel - jews, brits and pals.

then, after a looong time, in '46, IZL blows up King David hotel. now read:

quote:

The attack was initially ordered by David Ben Gurion, who was in the United States, but he later changed his mind and ordered the bombing to be cancelled. But Menachem Begin, the head of Irgun, went ahead anyway.

btw, yeah - I also think some of the Hagana attacks were necessary. you can't just defend you home while the enemy keeps attacking you.

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quote:

Originally posted by ronk

You said that it was the Arabs that were committing terrorism against the British and we both know that the Jewish militias attacked the British as well

quote:

btw, yeah - I also think some of the Hagana attacks were necessary. you can't just defend you home while the enemy keeps attacking you.

I said massacres, not attacks...

btw I forgot to say, the jewish settlement policy was restrain/defence, but after the '36-'39 uprising the policy was changed. (read below)

quote:

You said that it was the Arabs that were committing terrorism against the British and we both know that the Jewish militias attacked the British as well

firstly, I didn't say the jewish forces did not attack the brits. I said it was the palestinian's terror that eventually made the brits get the hell outta here. it was the palestinian terrorism that dragged both jews and brits into a war.
after the '36-'39 uprising the third white paper was written and it limited the jews rights, contrary to the mandate form given to Britain by the UN (where there're no limitations) and to the balfour declaration.
then the jews cooperation with the brits stopped and the jews had to fight both pals and brits (who, after that third white paper, made the jews lives miserable) in order to win their homeland by rights in Israel.

quote:

I said massacres, not attacks...

you know, you're saying this like we're the bad guys. massacres, attacks...the same at a war. haven't you read what I wrote? the palestinians killed hundreds of jews for no reason!
if England is under heavy attack and 200 english people are killed, what would you do? sit quietly and do nothing?! well guess what? that's what the jewish settlement leaders have done in the beginning: nothing.
eventually, after the brits have betrayed the jews (in the third white paper), and started to support the palestinian terrorism (i.e. establishing a palestinian state in whole Israel), the Hagana started to act, on full power.

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Last edited by ronk on Jul-15-2005 at 23:54

What's a leader to do when they're dealing with animals like this?

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Sharon: No Restraint in Fighting Militants Sunday, July 17, 2005 JERUSALEM — Israel threatened Sunday to invade Gaza if Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas (search) does not control militants who have stepped up rocket and mortar attacks ahead of Israel's planned pullout from the coastal strip next month. Abbas pledged to do his utmost to stop the barrages but warned that an invasion of Gaza would "sabotage everything." Prime Minister Ariel Sharon (search) said all restraints are off and thousands of Israeli troops have massed along the Gaza border. The sudden escalation is the most serious threat yet to a 5-month-old truce that had drastically reduced Palestinian-Israeli violence after more than four years of bloodshed. More than 100 rockets and mortars have rained down on Gaza settlements and Israeli villages just outside the territory in the last four days. Hamas (search) leaders say they are retaliating for Israeli violations of the truce. But one leader said the main reason for the barrage was to show that Israeli settlers were fleeing Gaza under fire rather than in a planned evacuation. In violence Sunday, Israeli soldiers killed a Hamas leader and Palestinian infiltrator, and the air force fired on a car in northern Gaza, wounding a bystander. The military said it targeted militants on their way to firing rockets, but missed. Also, two Israelis were wounded seriously in a Palestinian mortar strike on a Gaza settlement. Soldiers and tanks were poised to cross the Gaza border fence. Large-scale raids often have followed rocket and mortar barrages but not since the truce took effect Feb. 8. Sharon told his ministers at the start of a weekly Cabinet meeting: "I spoke to the heads of the defense establishment ... and informed them that there are to be no restraints on our operations." Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz told the meeting Israel would launch a "massive, prolonged and intricate" military strike if the Palestinian Authority does not stop the attacks. Despite the tough talk, there were signs both sides want to maintain the truce. Abbas publicly called on militant groups like Hamas and Islamic Jihad to stop their attacks. Israeli officials said they are reluctant to launch a full-scale military strike for fear of being bogged down in Gaza before the evacuation. "We are going to do our utmost to stop these rockets," Abbas told a news conference in Gaza. "I cannot promise how much time it will take me." He said the United States warned him of Israel's intention to invade Gaza. "If this happens, this will sabotage everything," he said. The Palestinian leader blamed Israel for the tension. "Israel does not want peace or security, but we don't want to be dragged to their playground," he said. "Maybe they are looking for an excuse to delay the withdrawal." Egyptian mediators were meeting Sunday with Hamas in an attempt to reconstitute the truce, and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice was planning a quick trip to the region to try to salvage the cease-fire. After meeting the Egyptians, Hamas official Said Siyam said differences among Palestinians can be resolved peacefully. "The internal conflict has passed, and all issues within the Palestinian internal society can be solved through dialogue," he said, repeating the Hamas position that it is committed to the truce but has the right to retaliate for Israeli violations. Another confrontation was developing on a separate front. Police refused to give a permit to settlers and their backers for a mass march toward Gaza on Monday. Settler leaders say tens of thousands of people are to converge on Gaza to try to block the pullout. Police and settlers negotiated through the day, but the talks broke down when settlers refused to declare a time when the protest would end. Defiant settler leaders said they plan to go ahead with the march, which could trigger violent clashes. There have been scuffles at the main crossing point into Gush Katif, the main bloc of settlements, every day since Israel declared Gaza off limits to nonresidents last week to prevent thousands from reinforcing the 9,000 settlers already living there. Many of them are planning to resist the removal of all 21 settlements from the territory. The planned evacuation also has touched off dissidence within army ranks. The army chief ordered a 40-member platoon of Orthodox Jewish soldiers disbanded Sunday after nine soldiers disobeyed orders to stop demonstrators from entering Gaza, the military said. Many Orthodox Jews reject the pullout because they consider Gaza part of the biblical Promised Land. Palestinian police, meanwhile, began removing Hamas, Islamic Jihad and Fatah flags from the streets of Gaza early Sunday, leaving only the Palestinian national flag. On Saturday, Abbas said he would brook no challenges to his government's authority, and he called on militants to stop their attacks. Rockets and mortar rounds continued hitting Israeli targets Sunday. Two Israelis were wounded seriously by a mortar that landed on a house in the Gaza settlement of Neve Dekalim. An Israeli sniper shot and killed a senior Hamas field commander in a targeted strike earlier in the day after another mortar round hit the same community, the army and Hamas officials said. Hamas, which opposes the existence of Israel and has killed hundreds of Israelis, claimed responsibility for both attacks.

>>Source<<

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"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

Yea read that article a couple days ago.

Amazing how Palestinian society is willing to allow Hamas to sacrafise so many over something so trivial.

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quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r What's a leader to do when they're dealing with animals like this? >>Source<<

The zionist entity is just as or even worse than hamas. Hamas is merely a mafia type group that disrupts Israeli life every say... 3 months???

Israel on the other hand has disrupted the palestinian way of life since its birth... well lets say since the occupation of 1967.

You do the math.. who has suffered more... Israeli's with their once in a while terrorist attacks that have killed 1/4 the amount of what the palestinians suffer from.. or the pals.. who have been subject to THEFT of their homes and collective punishment by these these thieves

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"This place isn't big enough for me to blow it up."
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Originally posted by Cyrus King ? Israel on the other hand has disrupted the palestinian way of life since its birth... well lets say since the occupation of 1967.

You are such an Idiot. You really are. Is it lonely bieng so fucking stupid???

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Originally posted by LazFX You are such an Idiot. You really are. Is it lonely bieng so fucking stupid???

no i have discovered that the dumber you are the happier of a person you are.

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Just out of interest Yoepus, what are your views on Jerusalem? Do you think Israel should have all of it, just the West, some kind of duel sovereignty or would you welcome an "international city"?

Sorry missed this question.

Short answer: I believe Israel should have all of it.
I didn't always feel this way, but I believe after the events of the past 5 years spliting or any other taking away of soverignty of Jerusalem will be a victory for terror.

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