You know one thing i hate most is how US and Israel keep saying they will be a threat if Iran has a bomb. To anyone else, US and Israel having a bomb is a threat and no one is pointing the finger at genocide for the only country to use a Nuke at people, twice.

Anyways i came upon this and thought it was a interesting read, about the real Israel.

read with a open mind and not one that automatically places someone in the anti-american line.

quote:

Three years ago an Israeli Army bulldozer – manufactured and financed by the US – drove over and killed Rachel Corrie. The 23-year-old student from Washington State was in Palestine trying to protect defenceless Palestinians from Israel’s daily terror. Rachel’s horrifying death was deliberately covered-up and her name smeared in order to “protect Israel’s interests”. Why is the U.S. sacrifice so much for so little? Since its creation on Palestinian land, Israel has received massive financial, military and political aid from the U.S. to facilitate Israel’s dispossession of the Palestinian people and expansionist policy. In 1948, Israeli Jews have ethnically cleansed more than 800,000 Palestinian (75 per cent of the population) from their land and massacred tens of thousands of innocent men, women and children. Again, in 1967 Israel used the same process of systematic ethnic cleansing to expel more than 500,000 Palestinians from their land in the West Bank. Israel is devoid of any moral superiority. In Palestine, Israel’s brutal policies involve permanent injuries to individuals, sadistic torture, rapes and deliberate executions of innocent Palestinians, including school children and political leaders. Today, more than 4 million Palestinians live on less than 20 percent of what was once the British Mandate of Palestine. They are pushed into disconnected ghettoes control and denied freedom of movement by the Israeli Occupation Force (IOF). Gaza is a large prison with more than 1.2 million impoverished and hungry Palestinians. According to the World Bank, Gaza is experiencing the worst depression in history caused by Israeli blockade and restrictions. More than 10,000 Palestinians are illegally imprisoned in Israeli-run prisons without charge. Another 4-6 million Palestinians are languishing in refugee camps in Syria, Jordan and Lebanon unable to return to their homeland. The aim is to fractionate and exterminate the Palestinian community while the rest of the world looking the other way. Israeli revisionist historian Benny Morris, who advocated the expulsion of all Palestinians from Palestine because he thinks Palestinians are Untermenschen or “lesser humans” than Jews has admitted (recently) that Israel “founded on brute force, repression and fear, collaboration and treachery, beating and torture chambers and daily intimidation, humiliation and manipulation” together with the stealing of Palestinian land and water resources. The situation has not changed since. Israel continues the dispossession and the systematic process of ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people with unquestionable support of the US administrations. A study by John Mearsheimer, Professor of Political Science at the University of Chicago and Stephen Walt, Professor of International Affairs at the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard, accurately detailed the hidden fist of the pro-Israel America’s pro-Israel Jewish Lobby (‘the Lobby’) behind US unquestioned support for Israel’s terror against the Palestinian people. In the March 2006 issue of the Faculty Research Working Papers Series of Harvard University. [1] The authors write: Since the October War in 1973, Washington has provided Israel with a level of support dwarfing that given to any other state. It has been the largest annual recipient of direct economic and military assistance since 1976, and is the largest recipient in total since World War Two, to the tune of well over $140 billion (in 2004 dollars). Israel receives about $3 billion in direct assistance each year, roughly one-fifth of the foreign aid budget, and worth about $500 a year for every Israeli. This largesse is especially striking since Israel is now a wealthy industrial state with a per capita income roughly equal to that of South Korea or Spain. Compare this with what Americans received in Katrina devastated New Orleans. “Most recipients of aid given for military purposes are required to spend all of it in the US, but Israel is allowed to use roughly 25 per cent of its allocation to subsidise its own defence industry. It is the only recipient that does not have to account for how the aid is spent, which makes it virtually impossible to prevent the money from being used for purposes the US opposes, such as building settlements on the West Bank”, write Mearsheimer and Walt. “Moreover, the US has provided Israel with nearly $3 billion to develop weapons systems, and given it access to such top-drawer weaponry as Blackhawk helicopters and F-16 jets. Finally, the US gives Israel access to intelligence it denies to its NATO allies and has turned a blind eye to Israel’s acquisition of nuclear weapons”, add the authors. Furthermore, the US provides Israel with strong political backing – even though Israel is in violations of International Law and countless UN Resolutions –, in particular using its veto’s power at the UN against the world community to veto any criticism of Israel and increases the misery of the Palestinian people. “The combination of unwavering support for Israel and the related effort to spread ‘democracy’ throughout the region has inflamed Arab and Islamic opinion and jeopardized not only U.S. security but that of much of the rest of the world. This situation has no equal in American political history. Why has the U.S. been willing to set aside its own security and that of many of its allies in order to advance the interests of another state?” question Walt and Mearsheimer. It is alleged that US support for Israel is motivated by the following: Israel is “outnumbered” by the Arabs; Israel is the only “democracy” in a region; and Israel is a strategic U.S. ally and that supporting Israel is in the “interests of the American people”. However, evidence shows that the opposite is true in all cases. Israel is the largest military power in the region. In fact Israel is the fourth largest army in the world. Its modern army in financed and backed by the US and Western allies with more than 200 nuclear warheads aimed at defenceless neighbours. It is not a true Israel is only outnumbered by defenceless peoples. The Arabs armies are not for defence purposes, but to protect US stooges from the Arab masses and Arabs nationalism. Israel has regularly attacked and invaded neighbouring countries. In addition to its occupation of Palestinian land, Israel is still occupying the Golan Height in Syria, and south Lebanon. Israel continues to kill and wounding Palestinians in ratio of four or five to one. And in recent time, Israel has threatened to bomb Iran. Israel is not a “democracy”. Israel defines itself as a “Jewish state”. It is not a state for all its citizens. According to a recent report published in the Guardian and substantiated by Gideon Levi of Ha’aretz, Israel is one racist state reminiscent to Apartheid South Africa. [2] It discriminates not only against native Palestinians and ‘Israeli Arabs’ but also against non-Jews. Even Jews are treated and categorised according to their origin. Furthermore, Israel is in violations of international law and the UN Charter in its brutal treatments of the Palestinian people. Furthermore, Israel is not a “strategic” US asset. The US has far more reliable vassals in the region than Israel. Saudi Arabia, like other big US military bases in the Gulf, is a vital US ally in the war on Iraq and Afghanistan. A large sector of the US economy depends on good relation with Saudi Arabia. Turkey is another more important US ally than Israel. The reality is that the unquestioned U.S. support for Israel is against Americans’ interests, and that Israel has succeeded in making America one of the most feared and hated countries in the world. Time has shown that the behaviour of the US administrations and Israel – in rejecting countless peaceful proposals to end the conflict – have been consistent in creating and encouraging long-lasting conflict and political stalemate in the region. U.S. leaders have always put Israel’s interests above all other more vital US interests, and vehemently refused to reconcile US interests in the Arab World with its interest in preserving Israel’s interest. This imperialist agenda of conflict and stalemate is designed to: advance Israel's Zionist ideology; benefit US oil corporations from moderately high oil prices and; provide market for US weapon industries. However, support for Israel – pushed by the pro-Israel America’s Lobby in the US – takes precedence over other US interests in the Middle Eats. Because the Lobby “claims are about advancing US interests and its support for Israel is contextualised in its support for the overall US strategy in the Middle East”. The influence of the pro-Israel Lobby, a collection of individuals and organisation led among others by Zionist organisations such as the powerful American-Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), the Anti-Defamation League (ADL), the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs (JINSA), the Conference of Presidents of Major Jewish Organisations (CPMJO), and the Washington Institute for Near East Policy (WINEP) is formidable. With massive amounts of money collected from donations, the influence of these organisations in Congress and over US foreign policy is far-reaching. It is common among elites American Liberals that Capitol Hill is the fourth “Israeli Occupied Territory”, after the Syrian Golan Heights, the West Bank, and Gaza. Without a doubt, “[t]he thrust of U.S. policy in the region derives almost entirely from domestic politics, and especially the activities of the ‘Israel Lobby’. Other special-interest groups have managed to skew foreign policy, but no lobby has managed to divert it as far from what the national interest would suggest, while simultaneously convincing Americans that U.S. interests and those of the other country – in this case, Israel – are essentially identical,” argue the authors of the study. In coalition with the American religious right from the Republican Party to the evangelical Christian groups, AIPAC with about 100,000 wealthy members form a single ethnic group wields a formidable force in US politics. The study by professors Walt and Mearsheimer reveals that; “AIPAC’s success is due to its ability to reward legislators and congressional candidates who support its agenda, and punish those who challenge it. We can recall in this regard the attack waged in 1984 on Senator Charles Percy, chairman of the powerful Senate Foreign Relations Committee by Thomas Dine, head of AIPAC: All the Jews in America, from coast to coast, gathered to oust [Senator Charles] Percy [of Illinois. Chairman of Senate Foreign Relations Committee] and the American politicians – who hold public positions now, and those who aspire – got the message”. [3] Money is critical to US elections (as the recent scandal over lobbyist Jack Abramoff’s various shady dealings remind us) and AIPAC makes sure that its friends get strong financial support from the myriad pro-Israel political action committees. Those seen as hostile to Israel, on the other hand, can be sure that AIPAC will direct campaign contributions to their political opponents. AIPAC also organizes letter-writing campaigns and encourages newspaper editors to endorse pro-Israel candidates”. In 1982, AIPAC led a very successful campaign to defeat Paul Findley, of Springfield, Illinois. Findley was a congressman known for his sympathetic views toward the Palestinian people. In other words, follow the Lobby’s line of unconditionally supporting Israel’s terror, or else. To have her ambition for the presidency and her way to the White House certified by the Lobby, Hillary R. Clinton has now turned against the Palestinian people. In her latest attack on the Palestinians, the New York Senator defended the Apartheid Wall – condemned as illegal by the International Court of Justice (ICJ) in The Hague – which is built by Israel on stolen Palestinian land. In fact, the ICJ’ ruling was that the Wall and all settlements (Israeli colonies) in the West Bank, Gaza and Jerusalem are illegal and must be removed. The ICJ ruling, like all other world curt ruling, requires all other signatories to the ICJ Charter to compel Israel’s compliance with the ruling. The Wall annexes 58 per cent of the West Bank. It is designed to imprison the Palestinians into disconnected ghettos and confiscate their land and water resources. Yet, the Palestinians are told to ‘democratise’. An imperialist cliché designed to manipulate public opinion and increase the suffering of the victims. Early this year, Human Rights Watch (HRW) called on the Bush Administration to deduct from Israel’s foreign aid assistance the amount it spends on expansion of settlements and the Apartheid Wall. This request is an encouraging sign of due moral principle. Most Americans are misled by the Lobby and Israel’s propaganda that the Apartheid Wall is just a ‘security fence’. A recent report by Shin Bet (the Israeli intelligent service) attributed the decline of attacks against Israel and increased safety to the “the informal truce observed by some Palestinian groups” and not to the Apartheid Wall. Mrs. Clinton campaign donation is assured now. Mrs. Clinton just accepted $2000 from Willie Tan, owner of a string of clothing sweatshops in the tiny Pacific nation of Saipan. Mr. Tan was recently ordered to pay $9 million in back wages to workers – mostly teenage Chinese females illegally shipped into the Island from China – after officials branded his operation a sweatshop in 1992. Mr. Tan has links with the Jack Abramoff, the lobbyist who pleaded guilty in January to fraud, corruption and embezzlement charges. Abramoff who received large amount of money as a Republican lobbyist diverted most of it (‘charity donations’) to Israeli settlers living illegally on Palestinian lands. His customers were told this money is intended for inner city poor Americans. Instead the money bought military hardware to help settlers terrorize native Palestinians. Among other expenditures, building school for Israeli snipers, purchases of camouflage suits, sniper scopes, night vision binoculars, a thermal imager and other material described in foundation records as security equipment. (Michael Isikoff, Newsweek, 02 May 2005). Abramoff is one of Tom Delay “closest and dearest friends”. Tom DeLay is the evangelical Christian Zionist who was indicted on money laundering and other charges, and resigned his post as House Majority Leader. DeLay is an advocate of Israel’s policy of deliberate killings of Palestinian leaders. In July 2003 on a visit to Israel, DeLay told the Israeli Knesset that: “Israel’s fight is our fight” and that “Israel should not withdraw from the occupied Arab lands”. The speech was an Armageddon of violence and injustice orchestrated by the alliance of AIPAC and the Christian Zionists. In addition, the Lobby plays an important role in the thought control of the American public. Its most formidable weapon is the use of anti-semitism against anyone who dares to criticise Israel’s terror against the Palestinian people. The Lobby uses the cliché of anti-semitism to stifle debate and remove any even-handedness criticism of Israel. Any criticism of Israel is labelled anti-semitism and subjected to threat and intimidation. As a result of this blackmail, the US media – from the mainstream to the so-called “Alternative” media – is the most biased and less informative pro-Israeli media in the world. Even Israeli media by comparison are more even-handed than the US media. “Because so many powerful people in the media and publishing business are strong supporters of Israel, the task is made vastly easier”, wrote the late literary critic Edward Said. Furthermore, to steer young Americans in a pro-Israeli direction, the Lobby is moving into the university and college campuses across the US – even though the average American is unaware of “that there is a narrative of Palestinian suffering and dispossession at least as old as Israel itself”. It instituted and created several right-wing groups to watch and monitor any department or faculty who dares to have pro-Palestinian opinion. Faculty members across the US are under pressure from the Lobby to hue to Israel’s policy. It demands a total pro-Israel teaching and brainwashing of American students regardless. Several universities with Middle Eastern departments have been targeted and their faculty members were subjected to hate e-mails and intimidation. They are also demanding Congress to reduce the appropriation for Title VI-funded programs of the Higher Education Act, in which federal funding provided to universities to support the study of languages such as Arabic, Persian and Turkish. Leading the pack of these attacks on American free thought, education and democracy is Campus Watch. It is a pro-Israel, anti-Muslims web site founded by the Zionist and Islamophobic, Daniel Pipes. The site is a Zionist propaganda arm of the Israeli government. It is specialising, among others, in witch-hunts academics and students who question the US blind support for Israel’s terror and repression in Palestine. It is a form of terrorist propaganda against academic freedom. The study of Mearsheimer and Walt concurs with several other studies and opinions around the world that the US war on Iraq was largely to advance Israel’s interests and has nothing to do with WMD and terrorism – as has been proved. The study make a strong case that the Lobby and US Zionists (the so-called ‘dual loyalty’ neo-cons or cabal, including Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas Feith, Elliot Abrams, Richard Perle, David Wurmser, John Bolton, Michael Ruben, Dick Cheney, and Lewis ‘Scooter’ Libby, who is awaiting criminal trial) in the Bush Administration formulated the policies and made the decisions to push the US to got to war on Iraq. “The main driving force behind the war was a small band of neo-conservatives, many with ties to the Likud [Party]”, write Mearsheimer and Walt. “Given the neo-conservatives’ devotion to Israel, their obsession with Iraq, and their influence in the Bush administration, it isn't surprising that many Americans suspected that the war was designed to further Israeli interests”, argue the authors. Yet, the neocons push for the war on Iraq was largely uncovered in US media. The war against the Iraqi people proves to be a carbon copy of the war on the Palestinian people. In the same way Israel is destroying Palestine, US illegal war on Iraq has destroyed the entire nation. In addition to the hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi women and children slaughtered in cold blood, an unknown large number of US soldiers killed and wounded. Why a premeditated mass murder of innocent civilians is good for the Jewish people or the American people? Furthermore, the war on Iraq has cost American taxpayers massively. According to Linda Bilmes, a Harvard University budget expert and Columbia University’s Professor of Economics and Nobel Laureate Joseph E. Stiglitz calculate that the war is likely to cost the American taxpayers a minimum of nearly one trillion dollars and potentially over $2 trillion. [4] America’s education system and the health care services will blossom with a fraction of this money. Israel is the only beneficiary of this criminal and illegal war, and Israel continues to foment new war in the region. The current warmongering propaganda against Iran by Israel, the Lobby and some American politicians such as Senator Joe Lieberman and Senator Hillary R. Clinton is against the interests of the American people. Americans should know that good relations with Iran are in the interests of their nation. Any US attack on Iran is against the interests of the American and Iranian peoples, and can only lead to hostility between the West and the Muslim World. The Lobby’s push for the war on Iraq and Israel’s involvement in the crisis of both Iraq and Iran show that Israel is not only attacking the Palestinian people, but Israel is also attacking every other Arab and Muslim nation deemed to disagree with its colonial policy. Israel reciprocates to this generous and unquestioned support provided by American taxpayers and the US administration by simply undermining American security. The case of Jonathan Pollard, a Texan Jew and former intelligence analyst in the US Navy is a case in point. Pollard was recruited by Israel to spy on the US military and US Nuclear Deterrent program. Israel then traded those stolen nuclear secrets to the former Soviet Union in exchange for increased emigration quotas from there to Israel. "A number of officials strongly suspect that the Israelis repackaged much of Pollard's material and provided it to the Soviet Union in exchange for continued Soviet permission for Jews to emigrate to Israel”, wrote Seymour Hersh. Former Defence Secretary, Casper Weinberger, in his affidavit opposing a reduced sentence for Pollard, described the damage done to the United States; “[It is] difficult to conceive of a greater harm to national security than that caused by … Pollard's treasonous behaviour”. Lawrence A. Franklin, the former analyst at the Defence Secretary Office at the Pentagon was recently convicted and sentenced to 12 years, and seven months in prison after pleading guilty to three felony counts under the Espionage Act to communicate classified information to foreign government. Franklin passed highly classified military information about Iran and Iraq to two pro-Israel lobbyists (Steven Rosen, AIPAC director of foreign policy issues, and Keith Weissman, AIPAC Iran expert) and an Israeli diplomat. As Mearsheimer and Walt argue, AIPAC is simply “a de facto agent for a foreign government” which enjoys tax exempt status spying on the US. Rosen and Weissman were charged and still waiting trial. The leaking of the FBI investigation of AIPAC to the media on August 28th, 2004 gave advance warning to other spies working with Franklin. Further more, Israel’s export of technology, particularly arms technology (built with US input), and to China is on the rise. The Israeli daily Ha’aretz report recently that “in 2005 contracts were signed for the export of more than $3 billion between Israeli and foreign companies”. Yet the mainstream media in the US who hyped and propagated the illegal war against the Iraqi people remain mute about Israel’s illegal activities in the US and the danger of the pro-Israel powerful Lobby to American democracy. The arming of Israel by the US and its European allies is neither in the interests of the Jewish people nor is in the interests of the Americans and the Europeans. In fact, what Israel is doing in Palestine is against the interests of the Jewish people. Anti-Jewish sentiment in Europe and around the world is not the result of anti-Semitism – all Arabs are ‘Semites’ –, but as a result of Israel’s brutal policy against the Palestinian people, and Israeli propaganda to foment anti-Muslim and anti-Arabs hatred around the world. Jews and Muslims (including Arabs) have lived in coexistence for centuries. There are an estimated 30,000 Jews live happily in Iran. They are far better treated than the 1.2 million Arabs living in Israel, or the 4 million Palestinians living under Israel’s brutal Occupation. For the “two states” solution to achieve equitable and lasting settlement for the peoples of the region, Israel must first withdraw from all occupied Palestinian land – demanded by UN Resolution 1402. Second, UN Resolution 3236 adopted in 1974 which affirmed the right of the Palestinian to self-determination and national independence, as well as their right to return to their homes and properties must be implemented unconditionally. The implementation of this resolution is essential for a just and lasting peace. Anti-American sentiment across the world has increased as a result of US immoral policy of unconditionally supporting Israel’s colonial policies in Palestine. “People do not forget the death of their fellows, they do not forget the torture and mutilation, they do not forget injustice, they do not forget oppression, and they do not forget the terrorism of mighty powers. They do not only don’t forget. They strike back”, said playwright and Nobel laureate, Harold Pinter. If not rectified, US immoral policy will continue to have massive consequences for the American people. Mearsheimer and Walt rightly argue that Israel is no longer a reliable ally but a burden on the US. They write; Israel “is becoming a strategic burden [and] does not behave like a loyal ally”. Israel is now “a liability”. The US “[s]upport for Israel is not the only source of anti-American terrorism, but it is an important one, and it makes winning the war on terror more difficult. There is no question that many al-Qaida leaders, including Osama bin Laden, are motivated by Israel's presence in Jerusalem and the plight of the Palestinians. Unconditional support for Israel makes it easier for extremists to rally popular support and to attract recruits”, write Mearsheimer and Walt. Having said all this, one must be careful to blame all US crimes around the world on the pro-Israel Lobby; it is a deliberate diversion. The US is the most powerful country in the world. The US has far more tools for violence than any one, and the US is not accountable to anyone, let alone the pro-Israel Lobby. The US has enough power to force Israel to end it’s terror against the Palestinian people. Any form of economic sanctions by the US and its allies will force Israel to change its behaviour and pursue peaceful settlement. The US administrations knew all along what they were/are doing. In other words, the American administrations are complicit in Israel crimes against the Palestinian people. The policies of both, the US and Israel, are complementary imperialist policies. Before she died for a noble cause in Palestine, Rachel Corrie accurately observed: “I feel like what I’m witnessing here is a very systematic destruction of people’s ability to survive, and that is incredibly horrifying … Sometimes I’m sitting down to dinner with people, and I just realised that there is a massive military machine surrounding them and trying to kill these people that I’m having dinner with, these families that I’m sitting down to eat with and who are being very generous and kind to me, and their children here, who are incredibly threatened, living lives that no child ever should have to live”. Rachel Corrie’s words were deliberately smeared and censored because they humanise the Palestinian people. It took only one brave American citizen to stand in front of a US-made Israeli Army bulldozer to protect not only innocent Palestinian lives but also America’s interests. It is up to the Americans people to choose between the path of immorality and injustice and the path of human rights and dignity for all.

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer good point lets go invade them and bring democracy to them. I mean if you are a threat to Isreal you must be destroyd.

Wrong and wrong. First, lets allow the IAE and UN to make the call on how to deal with them since they only signed a treaty covering this very issue.

Second, in fight between Iran and Israel, Israel would kick the living shit out of Iran. It's the fact that Iran is asking for all Arab nations to unite in one part of a speech and then calling for genocide against one of our allies and a people that Arabs have been trying to destroy for the last 3000 years in another part. Study histroy and you'll find pretty quickly that the Jews have been out manned and out gunned by everyone till we took their back and started funding their army. You can also thank the guilt complex the European people had after hating the Jews for centuries and not wanting them around either, but suddenly having to do something to help them so they weren't lumped in with the Nazis for giving the Jews their own country in land they previously held. It's kind of sad that all this fighting is over a couple "holy" spots that really aren't that important.

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer please your government is 10X worse then they are.

Yes. We're so much worse cause we're calling for and justifying the unilateral destruction of an entire race of people. My government isn't perfect. In fact I'd say it's on par with Iran, but to say it's worse is a joke. When we start dropping nukes on every country that doesn't agree with us on how to wash your feet we'll be worse.

Last edited by WM2 on Apr-15-2006 at 15:14

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Originally posted by Cyrus King you guys are fools. This is all RHETORIC. NOTHING ELSE He isnt going to bomb israel, he is an anti-semite and thats all. You paranoid freaks are taking every little thing he says literally. There are many racist quotes those zionists have said about remving the palestinian population, but that isnt sensationalized by western media, becuase tehre seems to be a group of people that control the media in the States and are somewhat sympathetic to Israel

+1

I would like to add that people get their opinions made up for them when they watch the news. Whether it is Fox or CNN, their opinion is made up for them.

But for now a new Cold War is needed. I thought about it the other day. What was it like in the '50's when the USSR had nukes? For decades (way before some of you kids were born, yes I said kids.) we were scared about the USSR nuking us. Then they went away. Too bad people are too intent on listening to the mass media creating mass hysteria.

quote:

"We are Jews but not Zionists," said Rabbi Ahron Cohen, of Manchester, England, invoking the distinction between those who follow Judaism as a faith and religious Zionists who believe the Jews have a Biblical right to Israel as a homeland. "The root cause of the problem in the Middle East is the Zionists," Cohen said. "But really, the whole concept is flawed, and that's what the people in this country believe, too, and we're with them." In recent months, Iran has faced widespread accusations of anti-Semitism since Khatami's successor as president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, called for Israel to be "wiped off the map" and dubbed the Holocaust a "myth."

Iran's Khatami Says Islam Is the Enemy West Needs

shaolin_Z:

If people want to eat and sleep in their own filth and feces than let them. I've seen it here and in other forums. You just can't fight stupidity because you'll get tired too soon.

If the blind lead the blind, then let 'em, cause they're both gonna get hit by the 18 wheeler.

I know of you and others that know reason when they see it. Don't rush to the tower to scream it out. That's ok because no one is listening.

Just let them continue..eating and drinking not caring for when the master of the house will return..until the master comes home.

___________________

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I don't watch the news. I read, research, and then read a little more. Talk to my car buddies that are into politics about politics, and then form my own opinion.

The reason why Russia just kind of disappeared is called bankruptcy. Keeping up in an arms race gets kind of expensive. Maybe if you had thought about more than just a round about way of calling us ignorant you wouldn't have thrown out a dumb argument like that.

I'll agree that many people are spoon feed, but saying that a decent opinion and argument is spoon feed bs that will eventually come back to haunt the individual of that opinion so you can sound superior and not actually say anything constructive is in and of itself bs. Try explaining why you feel that way next time. You might get people to listen.

quote:

Originally posted by ogvh5150 +1 I would like to add that people get their opinions made up for them when they watch the news. Whether it is Fox or CNN, their opinion is made up for them. But for now a new Cold War is needed. I thought about it the other day. What was it like in the '50's when the USSR had nukes? For decades (way before some of you kids were born, yes I said kids.) we were scared about the USSR nuking us. Then they went away. Too bad people are too intent on listening to the mass media creating mass hysteria.

Speak for yourself kid, I served in Gulf War 1, hell I was old enough and did vote for the first Bush president in '88 Id guess thats pretty close to when you were born...

Your summary of the cold war is wrong, scared of the ussr nuking us and then they went away??????? You skipped over about 40 years there son. Berlin, Korea, Vietnam, Turkey, Cuba get the point?
As the poster above so eloquently said, we outspent the Soviets, thats why they "went away". Reagan told Gorby " The USSR is broke and we are going to build SDI and there is nothing you can do about it" a year and half later the Berlin wall came.

The only reason the world surived through the 50's,60's,70's and 80's was MAD mutually assured destruction, you know the theory ( i hope...)but inored for MAD to work both parties have be sane, a little ironic but hey i dont make the theories. The problem with trying to invoke a "cold war " now is Iran isnt sane and the US is pushing that bubble itself.

Take your own advice and stop listening to the media mass,local or underground.

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King you guys are fools. This is all RHETORIC. NOTHING ELSE He isnt going to bomb israel, he is an anti-semite and thats all. You paranoid freaks are taking every little thing he says literally.

Rewind to 1920's Germany. A guy named Adolf attmepts the Beer Hall Putsch thinking that the people would get his message and rise up and join him. It doesn't go so well and he ends up in jail. While in Jail he writes a book called Mein Kampf outlining all the things he wants to do when he gets out of jail that gets published, but everyone ignores it cause he's the silly guy that tried to fight the system and got thrown in jail and can't do anything.

Oddly enough, part of the way through his time in jail he gets released for good behavior and sets right out to do everything he told people he was going to do in the nice book he wrote. He just happens to get out during one of the worst economic periods in history and the people are angry and willing to go along with anyone that can make good on their promise to lead them out of their trouble.

He ends up taking power, starting one of the most costly(lives and money) and longest wars in history, and gets his people and other countries to help him murder 6 million Jews while he's at it.

Fast forward to 2006. A guy that wasn't favored to win the election did with 60% of the vote, says he wants to see the destruction of the Jews. Not just once, but quite frequently. Just about every time he gets behind a podium actually. Sort of like our good ole' buddy Adolf did 70 years ago. People are going to get a little worked up about that. Any self respecting human being should be interested in making sure we don't let it happen again cause no one should have to live through that.

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Originally posted by juzfugen I served in Gulf War 1, hell I was old enough and did vote for the first Bush president in '88

OK I don't really care if you voted for Ross Perot or Dan Quayle. There is a reason he was DCI in the 70's. There is also a reason he is called Poppy. But go ahead, keep swearing you know it all.

quote:

Your summary of the cold war is wrong, scared of the ussr nuking us and then they went away??????? You skipped over about 40 years there son. Berlin, Korea, Vietnam, Turkey, Cuba get the point?

It was a short summary. No need to get your panties in a bind.

quote:

As the poster above so eloquently said, we outspent the Soviets, thats why they "went away". Reagan told Gorby " The USSR is broke and we are going to build SDI and there is nothing you can do about it" a year and half later the Berlin wall came.

Weapons aren't free, they don't grow on trees and you can't get them by fishing in the ocean. Guess who pays for the war machine? The taxpayer. Same old story just different boogeymen. Oh yeah those SDI platforms are still there. They were launched as classified DOD payloads in the 80's. It's only a matter of time if they will be used on human targets, assuming if they haven't already. But you seem to know more than me so go ahead and pat yourself on the back.

quote:

Take your own advice and stop listening to the media mass,local or underground.

Then why did you even bother sqawking since you ended it by writing that statement? It's a rhetorical question.

The Pavlovian strategy in public relations has people conditioned more and more to ask themselves, "What do other people think?" As a result, a common delusion is created: people are incited to think what other people think, and thus public opinion may mushroom out into a mass prejudice.

In the Pavlovian strategy, terrorizing force can finally be replaced by a new organization of the means of communication. Ready made opinions can be distributed day by day through press, radio, and so on, again and again, till they reach the nerve cell and implant a fixed pattern of thought in the brain. Consequently, guided public opinion is the result, according to Pavlovian theoreticians, of good propaganda technique, and the polls a verification of the temporary successful action of the Pavlovian machinations on the mind. Yet, the polls may only count what people pretend to think and believe, because it is dangerous for them to do otherwise.

Such is the Pavlovian device: repeat mechanically your assumptions and suggestions, diminish the opportunity of communicating dissent and opposition. This is the simple formula for political conditioning of the masses. This is also the actual ideal of some of our public relation machines, who thus hope to manipulate the public into buying a special soap or voting for a special party.
Joost Meerloo
The Rape of the Mind: The Psychology of Thought Control, Menticide, and Brainwashing

History is written by the victors
Winston Churchill

Until lions have their historians, tales of the hunt shall always glorify the hunter.
African proverb

All propaganda must be so popular and on such an intellectual level, that even the most stupid of those towards whom it is directed will understand it. Therefore, the intellectual level of the propaganda must be lower, the larger the number of people who are to be influenced by it.
Adolph Hitler
Mein Kampf

See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda
George W. Bush

If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.
Joseph Goebbels

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Someone will be going to war with Iran. Most likely it will be the U.S., Israel, and countries in Europe. I don't see China and Russia helping anyone. Regardless of what some of you think, the leaders of the world agree that Iran will not have nuclear weapons. Iran will be forced to back off its nuclear program or be attacked militarily. No way will the world allow a terrorist country like Iran have nuclear weapons.

I think we'll see the Iran debate really heat up after the 2006 mid term elections. It seems both parties in Congress don't want to touch this right now unless they're forced to.

quote:

Originally posted by deprivation No way will the world allow a terrorist country like Iran have nuclear weapons.

Yet they allow Isreal and North Korea to have them because they are both peaceful nations.

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Mystic Mind - DJ Mixes
http://soundcloud.com/mystic-mind

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quote:

Originally posted by habsfan Forgive my ignorance regarding this matter, but why shouldn't Iran be allowed nuclear technology? Or a nuclear bomb for that matter? India, Pakistan, North Korea all recently produced their own nukes and we didn't hear nearly as much "evil empire" BS from the media. US, UK, Israel all have nukes. I mean, Iraq just got invaded for nothing and now the US is setting up military bases there. If I were Iran, I'd be developing a nuke as fast as possible. So lets say Iran gets a nuke. It would only guarantee that they don't get invaded. Do you really think they would use it to strike Israel or the US? Come on . Doing so would pretty much guarantee their destruction. So, worst case scenario, Iran develops nuclear weapons and no one can invade/attack them. So what?

Iran is more fanatical. We're talking serious religious nuts here. People who would have no qualms about blowing large cities off the map.

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Current fav albums

DNA, kick me up
Protoculture, Circadians

quote:

Originally posted by Verona^My Iran is more fanatical. We're talking serious religious nuts here. People who would have no qualms about blowing large cities off the map.

LOL

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Facebook page
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