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Originally posted by George Smiley It's views like yours that is exactly the reason why some Muslims feel alienated and "keep themselves to themselves". An I thought you were Austrailian? So your one of the foreigners you talk about reducing civil liberties for too

If i were to start preaching "death to the pomes", much the same as the piece of shit with the hook for an arm. I would accept the british taking all my rights and deporting me (and any family i may have here).
You cant preach against, and then demand the protection of a system all in the same breath.

One more thing.

I am a steryotypical terrorist (all accept the accent and religious beliefs of course)

My grandad is a sheik in tanzania and i was born to an iranian mum.
Im 25, always look pissed off and always pay for things with cash.

If i were stopped at an airport for an additional check because of my appearance and behaviour i would be re-assured that the resources on hand are being used for in the most efficent manor thus the best outcome.
If you are allocated 10,000 hours of security for an airport what is the F8cking point of search a 25 year old women with three kids. Every search that is conducted in the name of political correctness is one less that can be used on someone of interest. Resources are finite.

I'd be more reassured if we spent the money on more important things like health care or fighting violent crime, not piss it up the wall on extra policing for 'Pakis'

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Originally posted by George Smiley Leeds. And in your example, is this always the fault of the Muslims (do you know that they are for a fact Muslim, and not Hindu or Sikh?) I agree they should learn English. But speaking a different language does not make you a terrorist sympathiser! Can you be more specific about which laws you are talking about? Britain was not attacked and that is what I asked. Bali was not bombed to kill British people, it was bombed to kill westerners. I am asking you why Britain specifically was not targetted before Iraq, and nobody wants to answer it because it flies in the face of their views about evil Muslims... If it can be proved that they are inciting and encouraging violence then yes, they should be deported (if foreign) or sent to jail (if British). However, it's a fine line and open to abuse by the authorities. For example, the anti-terrorist laws have mainly been used against anti-capitalist protests. Well I would describe myself as a social democrat which is not what you describe above. I agree with your comments about Anarchists and Marxists (which I assume you incorrectly refer to as Socialists, as that is the broad umbrella term for left wing ideologies) And I've said it before and I'll say it again, Galloway is a twat!!!

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Originally posted by George Smiley Leeds. And in your example, is this always the fault of the Muslims (do you know that they are for a fact Muslim, and not Hindu or Sikh?) I agree they should learn English. But speaking a different language does not make you a terrorist sympathiser! Can you be more specific about which laws you are talking about? Britain was not attacked and that is what I asked. Bali was not bombed to kill British people, it was bombed to kill westerners. I am asking you why Britain specifically was not targetted before Iraq, and nobody wants to answer it because it flies in the face of their views about evil Muslims... If it can be proved that they are inciting and encouraging violence then yes, they should be deported (if foreign) or sent to jail (if British). However, it's a fine line and open to abuse by the authorities. For example, the anti-terrorist laws have mainly been used against anti-capitalist protests. Well I would describe myself as a social democrat which is not what you describe above. I agree with your comments about Anarchists and Marxists (which I assume you incorrectly refer to as Socialists, as that is the broad umbrella term for left wing ideologies) And I've said it before and I'll say it again, Galloway is a twat!!!

On the first point we are in an agreement, they need to learn the language and yes if they don't speak English their not terrorism supporters. The immigration system the UK however is a fucking mess.

No laws just I feel the civil rights in this country take the piss, yes it's a democracy but they go over the top sometimes.

I agree with the new terror laws when you can lock people up for a while pending questioning. But I don't need that fucking short haired dyke on question time ranting on about civil rights.

Yes your asking for an example of an attack on British soil I gave you some answers, maybe you disagree with the whole Iraq thing I do too, but I will certainly support people serving over there some of them being my mates in fact.

I don't know what you voted for in the last election I think you probably went for Labour or Lib Dem? But if you went for Labour they were the ones who decided to join the USA invading Iraq, a guilty conscience maybe?

For the record I don't mind Muslims, their not evil people but they need to do a hell of a lot more to sort out the Muslim community, because I think they sit on their arse and do fuck all about it, they sit in these mosques maybe they should know if someones going a bit off the rails?

Anyone who is anti captialist is the same to me to be honest, I stand against it. What I stand for is anyone who works hard for their family and anyone who aspires to something and follows their dreams.

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Originally posted by Dj O'Callaghan On the first point we are in an agreement, they need to learn the language and yes if they don't speak English their not terrorism supporters. The immigration system the UK however is a fucking mess.

Who says it's a mess? And can you explain to me exactly why it's a mess? Because in my view immigration has filled in the employment gaps our economy so desperately needed, not to mention the increased revenue in income tax...

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No laws just I feel the civil rights in this country take the piss, yes it's a democracy but they go over the top sometimes.

Yes they do. And as far as I can see it's white middle class people who "impose" politically correct daftness, not ethnic minorities (who become the easy targets of people opposed to PC)

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I agree with the new terror laws when you can lock people up for a while pending questioning. But I don't need that fucking short haired dyke on question time ranting on about civil rights.

The terror laws would be fine if they were used on terrorists, unfortunately they have (iirc) been mainly used on political protestors. Also, do the laws differentiate between terrorists and political activists? There are 1000s of people who would advocate the overthrowing of the ruling elite to install a "true" democracy in this country, and in the eyes of the laws they are no different to these "terrorists". Where does it end? Are these laws gonna be for anyone who opposes the status quo?

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Yes your asking for an example of an attack on British soil I gave you some answers

You've not given me one example of an Islamist attack where the target has been the UK specifically, and that is because there has never been one!!

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maybe you disagree with the whole Iraq thing I do too, but I will certainly support people serving over there some of them being my mates in fact.

I never said you shouldn't did I?!

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I don't know what you voted for in the last election I think you probably went for Labour or Lib Dem? But if you went for Labour they were the ones who decided to join the USA invading Iraq, a guilty conscience maybe?

I've always voted Labour in general elections and I've made sure my MP voted against the war first! British people do not vote for a party like in US Presidential elections, they vote for a person (and a good proportion of Labour MPs were and are against the war)

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For the record I don't mind Muslims, their not evil people but they need to do a hell of a lot more to sort out the Muslim community, because I think they sit on their arse and do fuck all about it, they sit in these mosques maybe they should know if someones going a bit off the rails?

You seem to be an expert on Muslim communities! How do you know moderates would go anywhere near the kinds of mosques Hamza would preach in to know what went off there?! Also, what do you propose they do about them anyway? Tell them to behave? What makes you think they could have any effect on someone prepared to kill themself?! British foreign policy is the only thing that will have an effect on these people...

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Anyone who is anti captialist is the same to me to be honest, I stand against it. What I stand for is anyone who works hard for their family and anyone who aspires to something and follows their dreams.

And being anti-capitalist opposes what you write above because...?

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Originally posted by Dj O'Callaghan The immigration system the UK however is a fucking mess. Anyone who is anti captialist is the same to me to be honest, I stand against it. What I stand for is anyone who works hard for their family and anyone who aspires to something and follows their dreams.

I can see huge contradictions in your opening and finishing comments there...

You don't want immigration, yet all the evidence suggests that Britains economic success compared to the other EU economies is because of immigration and the prospect of half a million entering from Romania/Bulgaria next year can only make our economy better. Yet the immigration system is a "fucking mess"?

Also out of the 450,000 immigrants from the EU states, only 700 are on the dole (0.16%) so what does that tell you about "anyone who works hard"?

Don't you think you need to refine your views on immigration so they are more in line with your views on capitalism???

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Originally posted by George Smiley I can see huge contradictions in your opening and finishing comments there... You don't want immigration, yet all the evidence suggests that Britains economic success compared to the other EU economies is because of immigration and the prospect of half a million entering from Romania/Bulgaria next year can only make our economy better. Yet the immigration system is a "fucking mess"? Also out of the 450,000 immigrants from the EU states, only 700 are on the dole (0.16%) so what does that tell you about "anyone who works hard"? Don't you think you need to refine your views on immigration so they are more in line with your views on capitalism???

It's a mess we do not have the facilities to support the influx of immigrants coming into this country, where are their kids going to go school? which doctors and dentists will they be attending? The government need to get the quota's right.

I agree with what you say about them filling up employment gaps, and their hard workers too. IMO a lot of British people are lazy I think you should only be able to receive the dole for a year, plus I the benefits system needs to be looked at properly but that's another story.

The ruling elite haha, good point I cannot stand the royal family or any type of nobel/feudal system, however we have to face facts a lot of tourism to this country is generated from the royal family. There is a lot more to this country and some tourists do see that but millions visit royal households a year <--- They must be crazy!

Political correctness has gone crazy, a lot of it is down to the Labour party having a bit of an identity crisis, it's being overun by Liberals it's losing it's roots and even though I'm a tory I don't like seeing that happen.

I think we should stick to our guns on foreign policy, if we changed it too suddenely it would seem soft and the fanatics will feel like they've won.

We cannot change what's happened in Iraq unfortunatly weather you supported it or not but I feel the coalition governments who invaded should be obliged to rebuild the country, even though it will not be a stable region for decades.

I would of prefered us to of sent military advisors and intelligence operatives into Northwestern Pakistan and Saudi Arabia as I don't think both countries have the resources to deal with the terrorist infrastuctures based in their country, plus add to that I think their security forces are corrupt.

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Originally posted by Dj O'Callaghan It's a mess we do not have the facilities to support the influx of immigrants coming into this country, where are their kids going to go school? which doctors and dentists will they be attending? The government need to get the quota's right.

Well off the top of my head I know the Poles brought over 2,000 dentists with them (or it may have been doctors) and how many times do you hear people moaning cos they want an English doctor not a foreigner? Seems to me like there are plenty of doctors/dentists coming in THANKS to immigration

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I agree with what you say about them filling up employment gaps, and their hard workers too. IMO a lot of British people are lazy I think you should only be able to receive the dole for a year, plus I the benefits system needs to be looked at properly but that's another story.

Well then you should direct your criticisms towards the British people not immigrants who come over here to WORK (otherwise they would go to the more socialist political systems such as Scandanavia) (and you are only allowed to collect dole for 6 months! )

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I'm a tory

Wow! I'm not only shocked that you feel comfortable admitting that ( ) but you also claim to be Irish!!! Why the **** would anyone in Ireland support the Tories after what they did to the country?!?!

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I think we should stick to our guns on foreign policy, if we changed it too suddenely it would seem soft and the fanatics will feel like they've won.

Oh well let's just ignore what the people want and do what Bush wants us to do? I suppose you're against Brussels "dictating" how Britain acts?

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We cannot change what's happened in Iraq unfortunatly weather you supported it or not but I feel the coalition governments who invaded should be obliged to rebuild the country, even though it will not be a stable region for decades.

Yes unfortunately Iraq is fucked and I can't see any solutions to make it better. I don't think pulling out will make much difference either way.

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I would of prefered us to of sent military advisors and intelligence operatives into Northwestern Pakistan and Saudi Arabia as I don't think both countries have the resources to deal with the terrorist infrastuctures based in their country, plus add to that I think their security forces are corrupt.

The problem with Pakistan is that the ISI worked extremely closely with the Islamists during the Afghan war and therefore forged (and maintained) extremely good relations with them. As for Saudi Arabia, there are "two" governments. "Our" side and ally which are the Crown Princes and then there is the "enemy" side which is the religious leaders who support al-Qaida whole heartedly. From the outside we are told to view Saudi Arabia as the Crown Prince (and hence our "allies") but domestically the religious leadership has all the influence

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Originally posted by George Smiley Well off the top of my head I know the Poles brought over 2,000 dentists with them (or it may have been doctors) and how many times do you hear people moaning cos they want an English doctor not a foreigner? Seems to me like there are plenty of doctors/dentists coming in THANKS to immigration Well then you should direct your criticisms towards the British people not immigrants who come over here to WORK (otherwise they would go to the more socialist political systems such as Scandanavia) (and you are only allowed to collect dole for 6 months! ) Wow! I'm not only shocked that you feel comfortable admitting that ( ) but you also claim to be Irish!!! Why the **** would anyone in Ireland support the Tories after what they did to the country?!?! Oh well let's just ignore what the people want and do what Bush wants us to do? I suppose you're against Brussels "dictating" how Britain acts? Yes unfortunately Iraq is fucked and I can't see any solutions to make it better. I don't think pulling out will make much difference either way. The problem with Pakistan is that the ISI worked extremely closely with the Islamists during the Afghan war and therefore forged (and maintained) extremely good relations with them. As for Saudi Arabia, there are "two" governments. "Our" side and ally which are the Crown Princes and then there is the "enemy" side which is the religious leaders who support al-Qaida whole heartedly. From the outside we are told to view Saudi Arabia as the Crown Prince (and hence our "allies") but domestically the religious leadership has all the influence

Yes the Poles did bring over Dentists which is a good thing as we're having a problem with Dentists going private and waiting queues being huge etc. We need Doctors and Teachers too, plus if there is going to be more influxs of new immigrants then we're going to not only need the manpower to run these places but the facilities will need improving meaning new classrooms, wards etc.

I have no problem with skilled Laborers coming into this country, but I would like us to have a points system of some kind so we get people who's skills will benefit the economy and society as a whole.

Every nationality has it's scummy people. I loathe going to work everyday going out getting a packet of cig's and a newspaper and seeing the scum who walk through the centre of Northampton without a care in the world because their encouraged to be lazy and breed like flies.

I don't mind saying who vote I'm quite open about it and not ashamed too. I'm Half Irish Half English, I'm actually born in the UK my Mum's Irish. I agree the Tory government in the Thatcher years were awful to Nationalist people in Northern Ireland but they were awful in the years of the Labour governments of the 60's and 70's.

The UK should act on it's own accord not Bush's and most certainly not Brussels.

Carpet bomb the places I say j/k . We seriously need to send in military advisers and Intelligence operatives into these regions. I hate the old ally stuff, their basicially allies who do not have a clue to run their own country. Pakistan for an example I wonder how corrupt the police there are, and It wouldn't suprise me if a Taleban fighter is better armed then the local security forces.

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