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Originally posted by Dior Homme We should really stop building suburbs and try to start building cities. New York and New Jersey are so close to each other yet they are two large cities. I wish Toronto was similar to that layout. The major cities in Canada are far away from each other. Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal etc. His suburban boom is getting annoying the more it moves outwards.

NY and NJ are states.

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Originally posted by Dior Homme We should really stop building suburbs and try to start building cities. New York and New Jersey are so close to each other yet they are two large cities. I wish Toronto was similar to that layout. The major cities in Canada are far away from each other. Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal etc. His suburban boom is getting annoying the more it moves outwards.

Unfortunately we don't have 300 yrs to build cities close to each other. NY/NJ area was built during Thirteen colonies era.

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Originally posted by chinamon not true. i say "ugh" but i am a tranny.

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Originally posted by kotsy lol colour me retarded

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Originally posted by Dior Homme We should really stop building suburbs and try to start building cities. New York and New Jersey are so close to each other yet they are two large cities. I wish Toronto was similar to that layout. The major cities in Canada are far away from each other. Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal etc. His suburban boom is getting annoying the more it moves outwards.

Tu sors d'ou toi avec tes bétises? Et pourquoi Marseille et Paris sont si éloignées une de l'autre? Y a une histoire derrière l'emplacement de chaque ville, ce n'est pas différent au Canada.

Vraiment n'importe quoi.

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Might not be important but I guess I prefer to live within the reaches of big cities. Driving through suburbs is mind numbing, nothing much to see.

yeah alt.

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Originally posted by dj_souvlaki move to the city yes there is an idea. pay triple the taxes, quadrouple the cost to own a house/condo downtown. do you know what a small bungalo costs downtown? nevermind if you could find one. why would i leave the suburbs in my beautiful house where i can raise a family with plenty of space and not have to hear downtown toronto traffic or look up and massive buildings blocking out the sun? and you are worried about exhaust fumes? go ahead tare down the gardiner. say hello to wayyy more traffic and way more exhaust emissions from idling vehicles. not to mention more wear and tear on the vehicles from stop and go traffic cause more emissions from more srevicing done on cars ie oil changes, brake jobs, tires, transmission. you will be creating more polution in the long run. a moving car creates way less emissions/wear and tear/longevity than one that is in stop and go traffic. ever wonder why taxi cabs are always in such rough shape?

Taxes are high because the city needs to pay to sustain a failed policy on urban planning (ie. maintain current roads and build new). It is absurd to think that you can build enough roads to have people commute from suburbs, so you need to change people's habits. I hope the trend of converting vast parking spaces to condos speeds up.

MR. MILLER, TEAR DOWN THIS WALL!

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Originally posted by mute79 Taxes are high because the city needs to pay to sustain a failed policy on urban planning (ie. maintain current roads and build new). It is absurd to think that you can build enough roads to have people commute from suburbs, so you need to change people's habits. I hope the trend of converting vast parking spaces to condos speeds up. MR. MILLER, TEAR DOWN THIS WALL!

But Toronto gets billions of tax revenues from companies that are located in it's downtown, that employ people not living in the city, if the companies moved out closer to their workforce, toronto would be in deeper shit right?

Moreover, Toronto benefits from all the investment the provincial and federal govt make in regard to university/college expansion, art and culture infrastructure, RnD facilities, etc etc. Who collects taxes on these buildings let alone get all the prestige associated with them? certainly not the suburbs right?

You want the cake and eat it too, being the center of a conurbation comes with benefits and side effects.

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You speak as if other communities don't get any government subsidies at all. Look at Oakville/Oshawa and the auto industry? And while on this, how many of those workers commute from Toronto?

To bring this back on topic, the issue isn't whether people live in the suburbs and work in the city, the issue is their commuting habits. People simply refuse to get out of their cars and get onto public transit.

You really sound like some authoritarian fascist "people refuse" as if they're or should be forced to do so?

People are free to take their car as you are to bitch here on this forum... get used to it.

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Originally posted by malek You really sound like some authoritarian fascist "people refuse" as if they're or should be forced to do so? People are free to take their car as you are to bitch here on this forum... get used to it.

Good stuff. So what about the new City of Toronto tax - the PVT (personal vehicle tax). The "congestion" on the streets is caused by people commuting from the burbs (who won't pay the PVT).

And yet, I, as the resident of Toronto, have to pay this bullshit fee now.

How about we instead implement a toll system on the downtown (like in London) - want to drive in the city, pay up. I know the downtown-ers rarely use cars in the core and take transit whenever they can. The 'Sauga, Oakville, RichHill, Scarberia, Halton Hills, Milton, Whitby and Pickering residents, on the other hand, enjoy lower insurance on their cars, don't pay the PVT, and yet get to friggin drive down here every day...

So, if people are free to take their car whenever they want - and WE want them to take transit, lets make driving a car in the core more expensive.

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Originally posted by malek People are free to take their car as you are to bitch here on this forum... get used to it.

It has to be a 'build it, and they will come' kind of thing with public transport in the GTA. You probably will not find a bigger advocate for public transport than me, but even I have realised that it just is not practical for a lot of people. I have to include biking and walking to make my routes efficient and cost effective. The average person does not have the patience, dedication, nor physical ability to do it.

Public transport in the suburbs is just horrible. I moved away from Mississauga for the last three years, and came back to the same sparse system that I left. Although the TTC is not perfect, the rest of public transit is a joke in comparison.

Until the transit authorities can show people that they don't actually need the Gardiner, because superior infrastructure is in place, the same practices will continue. And who can blame them?

For instance, to go from Clarkson station in Mississauga, to Union: 4 people, $10.50 each. For $42, you can pick each person up, get gas, pay for parking, and maybe even have enough for a small bite. Plus the train only comes once an hour (aside from rush hour), and so if you miss it, you have to wait. If you bought a $10 jays ticket, you are paying more to get there, than you are on the reason you are going.