Sorry about the drama, koolaide.

That noise definately isn't a ground loop. It sounds to me like one of your outputs might be a dual functionality output and flipped to digital. Are you hearing this sound when the only audio interface connected is the Conectiv? If that's the case, it wouldn't be a dual functionality output.

Can you explain a little more about your setup and how things are connected?

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quote:

Originally posted by nem0nic Fixed that for you.

I thought it was pretty obvious what I was trying to say with that. Its one of the best examples of paradigm shifts in the music industry and the way people perceive and accept entertainment, since you were talking like you were such a proponent of such things as manual beatmatching.

quote:

Originally posted by nem0nic Oh, I don't know. Sorting by genre, or BPM, or by notes I've put into the ID3 tags of the music. You know... stuff EVERY OTHER FUCKING DJ APPLICATION MADE SINCE 2000 HAS. What if I don't know what specific song I want to play next, but would like to search by BPM or key instead? Again, it's fine if you've preproduced your set and KNOW that luke chable is next, but I prefer to NOT sound like a fucking robot when I spin.

because not having a flow chart from your said djing applications with bpm and keys and genres laid out is not robotic? come on guy. i dont preproduce any flow to any of my dj sets at all, that would defeat the art of what djing is, see above post.

quote:

Originally posted by nem0nic I thought I put it pretty plainly, but obviously you don't get it. Ableton Live requires some fairly extensive preproduction before tracks are ready for any kind of on the fly performance - ESPECIALLY if you play genres that break time. Conversely, DJ apps like TDJS and Torq put beat markers in as part of the song analysis. In TDJS the beat markers do a very good job of warping around broken beats on thier own (of course you also have the option of making a beat grid on the fly, and adjusting the beat phase that is used in conjunction with the beat markers to match time).

it does not require extensive amounts of preproduction, i know a pretty good local dj here in chicago that buys his stuff on beatport and warps it at the club while hes djing. i dont preproduce anything other than analyzing files before a gig. everything else is on the fly. i could even construct my template live on the fly while playing if i had to. to say that your aforementioned programs do a perfect job analyzing files and putting in makers is idiotic, as we know no one has perfected song analysis yet.

quote:

Originally posted by nem0nic Speak for yourself. Some of us actually like to DJ, and there are even (hold on to yourself) TURNTABLISTS that are interested in new technology.

oh i love to dj, otherwise i wouldnt do it. the JZ stab thing was more a poke at the amount of bad scratching that happens in dance music, its very few and far between to find a good turntablist, its a dying art.

quote:

Originally posted by nem0nic Blakey, you'll no doubt take offense to this. But I could give a shit, and will say it anyway. YOU ARE NOT AN ACCURATE REPRESENTATION OF DJ'S AS A WHOLE.

dont flatter yourself with thinking that you could offend me by saying something like this. I never attempted to represent djing as a whole, the only thing i did say remotely close to that is that beatmatching is not THE ONLY art in djing, and to base any djs skill on wheter or not he beatmatches manually or automattically is a joke.

quote:

Originally posted by nem0nic For every one of you, there are literally thousands of others that aren't "destination DJs". Someone like you CAN walk into a gig and press play. That's great. But there are also OTHER KINDS OF DJs out there who have to (or want to) work a crowd in a different way. So for every one of you, for whom DJing solely with Ableton Live is an option, there are THOUSANDS of others that wouldn't dream of it. And amazingly, some of these guys aren't confined to their bedrooms, either. Think about this the next time you break out your Ableton friendly track seperated remix of Okoboji.

I am a montly resident at vision in chicago and was a 2 year resident at ampersand in new orleans before the storm. dont tell me about working a crowd and proper opening etc. if i wasnt doing that, i wouldnt have the residencys i have/have had.

quote:

Originally posted by nem0nic The general gyst of my post was that in it's current form, Ableton Live doesn't offer the tools a majority of digital DJs want.

no i think your totally wrong when your saying this, and that is the point of my argument. i dont think its the total package or tools that keep the majority of djs that you are speaking for want, its the stigmata of not manually beatmatching that they fear that has become attached to ableton.

quote:

Originally posted by nem0nic No one's chiming in and saying that you "gotta keep it old school" and do all manual anything. I've been a proponent for digital DJing for a long time, and have been active in the development of some of the more groundbreaking products released in the last couple years. But I don't have my head so far up my own ass that I think what works for me works for everyone.

it sure didnt seem like it in your previous posts. you and others were coming across as beatmatch nazis. and dont suggest that i have my head up my own ass, thats such a cheap shot to take in public with someone who has had some success.

quote:

Originally posted by nem0nic I've been DJing since 1987, and was rocking the 504 for Moon Patrol and the Freebase Society when you were singing nursery rhymes.

im sorry but i fell out of my chair laughing when i read this. playing raves for donnie at state palace does not mean you know how to work a floor bro, sorry.

quote:

Originally posted by nem0nic I currently have the pleasure of working as an audio engineer for a large production house, and get to sit in front of things like an SSL 4056G and a full blown PT|HD system with a 5 bucket ProControl surface 4 days a week. But I also understand that not too many people have these tools.

not too many people need those tools guy. i know tons of producers, such as myself, that do just fine with a laptop and headphones. i think your the one with your head up your ass with such an irrelevant gear nazi post.

quote:

Originally posted by nem0nic And as of right now, only a couple retailers I know of are offering anything approaching Ableton friendly downloads for DJs. So until it's accessable for everyone (or until Ableton releases a DJ product that addresses the current lack of functionality), I'll keep my opinion about Live.

cool i could see ableton becoming all of the things you said, easily, in the next 5-6 years.

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I don't know... in MOST cases, I'd rather have a DJ stand around for 6 minutes and let a track play that some brilliant producer spent many hours making (and I want to hear), rather than hear a "DJ" hack it to bits and overlay cheesy effects just for something to do.

I'd much rather have a DJ spend those 6 minutes really thinking about which track to play next, and wow me with that.

That is the primary role of a DJ, to play great tracks in a sensible order, and present it in a well mixed fashion.

I'm not against Ableton in the least, but please, we aren't all brilliant musicians... don't bite off more than you can chew. And lay off the effects, there's only so many times a flanger sounds good.

I DJ for two reasons:

1. I love the music
2. I LIKE TO DJ

For me, I like playing on decks. Use what you feel comfortable with, and respect others choices.

quote:

Originally posted by Blake_Jarrell how do you know the dj is really "doing" something? it really only takes me about 1-2 mins tops to beatmatch a track manually, the other 6 i just have to stand there and look important. at least with ableton i can use dope effects, re edit songs, warp other tracks, and so on to make good use of that time instead of striking a pose or lighting a cig... and lets not even get into the whole faking shit with eq knobs that manual djs do. my main argument is, beatmatching is a math equation, its not djing. the essentials that make up the art of djing existed LONG before beatmatching, and will continue to exist long after. djing is track selection and floor/vibe building, things that take skill and experience. everything else is just bullshit.

quote:

Originally posted by Ryan0751 I don't know... in MOST cases, I'd rather have a DJ stand around for 6 minutes and let a track play that some brilliant producer spent many hours making (and I want to hear), rather than hear a "DJ" hack it to bits and overlay cheesy effects just for something to do. I'd much rather have a DJ spend those 6 minutes really thinking about which track to play next, and wow me with that. That is the primary role of a DJ, to play great tracks in a sensible order, and present it in a well mixed fashion. I'm not against Ableton in the least, but please, we aren't all brilliant musicians... don't bite off more than you can chew. And lay off the effects, there's only so many times a flanger sounds good. I DJ for two reasons: 1. I love the music 2. I LIKE TO DJ For me, I like playing on decks. Use what you feel comfortable with, and respect others choices.

cool i totally agree that in most cases all the effects are totally uncalled for and have witnessed people destroy great songs with both ableton and analog djing (turntables with a pioneer mixer etc)

i also agree on the comfort issue. im not trying to say that ableton is the current end all be all of djing, it will never be. it could be the industry standard soon though, and cdjs and turntables could easily become the minority.

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My setup goes (I suck at MS Paint):



And I'm hearing this sound coming straight from my mixer's headphone out as well, so I know it has nothing to do with my onboard sound (I also never had this problem when it just went decks-->mixer-->computer). Could it possibly be my USB controller, somehow? I don't think that would make sense, but that's the only thing I can think of, since I hear the exact same sound when using my other USB sound card.

I really appreciate all your help so far Thanks!

Blake, Im sorry to say this but just from reading your "immature" flaming posts to nemonic I have completely lost respect for you as a DJ. What you seem to fail at is understanding that it is only his opinion. He has mentioned that.

The thing that turned me off the most is the following

quote:

it sure didnt seem like it in your previous posts. you and others were coming across as beatmatch nazis. and dont suggest that i have my head up my own ass, thats such a cheap shot to take in public with someone who has had some success.

To me it sounds like youre just a cocky son of a bitch DJ that doesnt give a shit about the image you portray.

quote:

Originally posted by Devil Bunny Blake, Im sorry to say this but just from reading your "immature" flaming posts to nemonic I have completely lost respect for you as a DJ. What you seem to fail at is understanding that it is only his opinion. The thing that turned me off the most is the following To me it sounds like youre just a cocky son of a bitch DJ that doesnt give a shit about the image you portray.

if anything i was saying that its easy for people to knock other people who have tracks out and say that they are "cocky" or "full of themselves" etc, such as the head up my own ass statement. its a cheap shot, full of sensationalism, and people believe it. i did see that it was his opinion, but he was also suggesting alot of things that certainly werent true.

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Okay,I understand that, but you just need to be careful of what you say and how you say it, when you said that it sounded like something that a DJ that is full of himself would say.

Maybe they arent true about how use ableton. Yes, I have ableton and I use it to, but not alot, mostly I just stick with the traditional form of DJing.

Now back on topic, Torq looks pretty tempting, I was thinking about getting SSL or FS but this looks like it might win in my book.

quote:

Originally posted by Devil Bunny mostly I just stick with the traditional form of DJing.

believe it or not i dj the traditional way more than i use ableton. id say i use strictly cdjs at about 80% of the gigs that i play, and i have a variety of reasons for this.

i just looked into torq the other day and it does look cool. im always glad when something new comes out like that. we get closer and closer to the perfect djing concept and the technology gets more and more advanced. its pretty exciting.

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You see, I dont think that there really is a "perfect" form of DJing. I believe that there is a better way, but not perfect. The reason is EDM and DJing as a whole are completely dynamic. The needs of the DJ and the crowd are constantly changing, for better or for worse. A product that may be great for DJs today may not be what the DJ wants or needs the next day. I have to agree with you though, when something new like this comes out I get excited to. Its good to see the market refreshed, and new Ideas enter. There are some great Ideas in Torq I think Im going to have to give it a try.

You're pretty ignorant for a headliner.

quote:

because not having a flow chart from your said djing applications with bpm and keys and genres laid out is not robotic?

What the fuck are you talking about? Flowchart? Being able to search by BPM is equal to getting a flowchart from your DJ app? You're another fine product of the New Orleans school system.

No, what I'm talking about is a robust browser. Like I very clearly said in my posts.

quote:

to say that your aforementioned programs do a perfect job analyzing files and putting in makers is idiotic, as we know no one has perfected song analysis yet.

Didn't say ANYTHING was perfect. I just said I didn't need to fucking babysit it, warp marker it, or seperate it out.

quote:

oh i love to dj, otherwise i wouldnt do it. the JZ stab thing was more a poke at the amount of bad scratching that happens in dance music, its very few and far between to find a good turntablist, its a dying art.

Way to reverse the engines you kiss ass. You're so hypersensitive to anything regarding manual DJing that you lay out some insane blanket statement about "none of us should be trying to scratch", then try and suck up to the same people you have bashed in both your idiotic posts. Good job!

quote:

...the only thing i did say remotely close to that is that beatmatching is not THE ONLY art in djing, and to base any djs skill on wheter or not he beatmatches manually or automattically is a joke.

Again, the existance of any kind of auto beatmatching is not what makes Live inferior to other DJ software in my eyes. It's the other points I brought up. But you go on with your hypersensitive rant.

quote:

no i think your totally wrong when your saying this, and that is the point of my argument. i dont think its the total package or tools that keep the majority of djs that you are speaking for want, its the stigmata of not manually beatmatching that they fear that has become attached to ableton.

I'll agree with you a little here. I think that the stigma (it's fucking STIGMA - STIGMATA is plural and refers to the marks the nails made on Jesus' palms) of having the software do the work DOES keep alot of DJs away from digital DJing - and Ableton isn't the ony app that suffers from that problem. But you can't seperate DJing from it's past, and you can't discount the majority of DJs that LIKE the interface some kind of platter gives them. Hell, the lack of appropriate interfaces for DJs has given rise to all kinds of great new devices for us to use. It's also shown manufacturers of traditional DJ products that we want MIDI functionality in our equipment, and they have responded (abeit slowly).

But even given an amazing physical interface, I would STILL think Ableton Live in it's current form SUCKS as a DJ application. I DO think they will release a DJ centric product, and their version 5 release was definately a nod to DJs. But it's not there yet.

quote:

you and others were coming across as beatmatch nazis. and dont suggest that i have my head up my own ass, thats such a cheap shot to take in public with someone who has had some success.

Actually, no one was being any kind of nazi in this thread. And YOU were the one coming in thread crapping. We shouldn't all have to suffer for your little inferiority complex.

quote:

...playing raves for donnie at state palace does not mean you know how to work a floor bro, sorry.

Neither does phoning it in behind a laptop, since we're trying to get nasty, "bro". I made a living DJing for 12 years. When you get there, I'll give a fuck about your opinion.

quote:

not too many people need those tools guy. i know tons of producers, such as myself, that do just fine with a laptop and headphones. i think your the one with your head up your ass with such an irrelevant gear nazi post.

I didn't put that as well as I could have. My point there was that I am familliar with the process of production, and own or have access to the gear I need to facilitate that. But I also recognise that not everyone has the equipment, knowledge, or desire to be that guy. And in my eyes, a good DJ application is one that accomodates both those groups and everyone in between.

quote:

cool i could see ableton becoming all of the things you said, easily, in the next 5-6 years.

So can I.

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quote:

Originally posted by Devil Bunny You see, I dont think that there really is a "perfect" form of DJing. I believe that there is a better way, but not perfect. The reason is EDM and DJing as a whole are completely dynamic. The needs of the DJ and the crowd are constantly changing, for better or for worse. A product that may be great for DJs today may not be what the DJ wants or needs the next day. I have to agree with you though, when something new like this comes out I get excited to. Its good to see the market refreshed, and new Ideas enter. There are some great Ideas in Torq I think Im going to have to give it a try.

i didnt mean one perfect form or one perfect program, i meant what i said, the concept behind it. the ability to do anything and in many ways. i think we are growing closer to this with each new idea that comes on the market. eventually it will be all one solid idea, a swiss army knife for live music performance and djing.

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