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Originally posted by astroboy He has been overhyped. And the problem with him is that he isn't funny in interviews, that's not what the character was invented for. To figure out whether you like him or not you have to see him in one of his older sketches where he interacts with people who don't know he's fake. Cohen's satire, regardless of which particular character he is using, is effective because he plays an idiot and/or a foreigner. This forces people to cut the BS and express their beliefs in the simplest terms - kinda similar to the picaresque tradition or Huckleberry Finn. He can just ask a politician whether he thinks the Jews will go to heaven or hell and the guy gives him a straight answer because he assumes he won't understand the BS he usually shrouds it with. The other thing Borat in particular does well is show how racism and other prejudices are as much a product of acquiescence and mob mentality as of malicious intent. Most Germans during the third reich just acquiesced to what the establishment was telling them to think. It's like when you talk to someone about a movie they saw and they tell you they didn't really like it. Then someone else who this person thinks is super cool comes along and says "oh have you seen such and such film? It's fantastic isn't it?" and suddenly the first person turns around completely and goes "yeah it was pretty good"... Most forms of prejudice link back to that very phenomenon and The Nazi movement was just that on a massive scale. This is what Borat points out... he can be ridiculously racist or anti semitic and most people are happy to just go along with it. But to reiterate - don't judge the comedic value of any of Cohen's characters based on their performances on chat/interview shows.

on the money once again astro. the episode where borat got the whole pub crowd singing the song about stringing up the jews is a perfect example.

also, cohen is pretty fvcking quick-witted, he rolls with the punches well in an adlib environment.

perhaps danny ocean should watch more dave letterman? he might understand that a bit easier.

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Originally posted by astroboy Secondly I really think I could believe the character in the spur of the moment if I had was fairly narrow minded about other cultures and had never seen a real Kazakh. It's easy to look at characters like Borat, Bruno and AliG and say they're too ridiculous to be real. But I think if you were faced with someone like that in real life you might well be fooled. Cohen has tricked everyone from random hicks to high ranking politicians and academics. He has fooled plenty of people who ostensibly seem quite intelligent.

this is the thought process i expect to be going on in the mind of the interviewee as soon as cohen's charater does/says anything that makes himself seem dull witted - in other words, as soon as the bait is thrown:

A1. this guy is supposed to be basically one of kazakhstan's top reporters
A2. idiots do not usually make it to become top reporters, especially internationally
A3. this guy is an idiot
B. this guy is not who he says/thinks he is

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Last edited by Psy-T on Nov-14-2006 at 11:35

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Originally posted by Psy-T this is the thought process i expect to be going on in the mind of the interviewee as soon as cohen's charater does/says anything that makes himself seem dull witted - in other words, as soon as the bait is thrown: A1. this guy is supposed to be basically one of kazakhstan's top reporters A2. idiots do not usually make it to become top reporters, especially internationally B. this guy is an idiot C. this guy is not who he says/thinks he is

Yeah, that makes sense if your attitude is to question (a healthy attitude imo). But most people don't, they prefer to accept. SOmeone tells them he's a reporter, he has a profesional film crew, so people assume he's a reporter an make up justifications for the inconsisstencies. Who knows, maybe Kazakhstan is corrupt and this dumbass' father is the information minister, maybe he sounds smarter in his native language, maybe the differences are cultural... etc. This is especially easy if you believe your culture is superior and other countries are backward. I'm sure in hindsight the fakeness seems obvious to them too.

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Originally posted by astroboy Thereby making even bigger idiots of themselves and making the whole phenomenon even funnier for me. How is it different. The dumbasses can sit theere and laugh at his funny moustache all they want. It doesn't make the bits that they don't understand and I do any less funny to me. I agree. But most people on this forum, particularly those who have or will graduate from university, are in teh top 10-20 percent of the population in terms of intelligence. We will always find things funny or interesting that the majority will never understand. And if we do find the same things funny often it will be for different reasons. Again what the majority find amusing in it doesn't negate the deeper content he put in it for the few people that are smart enough to understand it.

Good Points.

I Think he makes a really good job on TV interviews, and why should we crucify the guy for doing them anyway. Borat is funny, I haven't laughed so long and so hard for a long time. It's just cringeworthy hilarity.

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I think he is hands down genius and brilliant performer

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Originally posted by Cro_Addict Ive been watching BORAT since 1997, thats 9 years now....

Thats funny cause Borat was first introduced on the Ali G show which first came on the air in 2000.

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I hung out with him for a few minutes. They screened his movie at my University for the Toronto film festival, Ive followed the whole Ali G scene for many years(since by cousin in the UK was bragging about him), but meeting him was a completely different experience. I can tell how people fell for his character, this guy was incredible at improvising and never stayed out of character. Cohen is really talented, if anyone has Stern on demand, id recommend you guys checking out his old interview in the "Vault" section

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well i like how he gets Americans to show some of their ignorance but other than that, I like the Ali G and Bruno character a lot better.

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Originally posted by inconspicuous AndreaCKY772. just. so. dumb.

allright i found this post on my teachers blog and he explains EXACTLY why he hates borat....an interesting perspective, i think it possibly explains why some of you might not like or agree with sasha barons style of comedy...



Even from the trailer I wasn’t sure I wanted to go see Borat, but when something gets a 92% positive rating on Rotten Tomatoes and almost universal beaming comedic praise, I figure there’s something more going on, that I’m going to see something genuinely funny.

There’s a whole area of comedy that I don’t seem to “get”. It never has the desired affect on me and I end up more annoyed than amused almost every time... and that's exactly why I hated watching Borat last night.

I absolutely loathe humor generated through brutal embarrassment. Maybe it’s because I grew up a timid little dork who sometimes got picked on or caught in awkward situations, I don’t know. But watching normal people get confronted by an insistent inappropriate asshole doesn’t doesn’t fill me with glee or make me laugh. I gather no joy from watching people struggle through those moments.

The weirdest part is that a lot of reviews about Borat are claiming it shines a light on bigotry in American culture - racism hidden just under the surface until people feel they can get away with saying what they really think. That’s horseshit. 3 of the people Borat talks to are outwardly bigoted (literally one for each of the major taboos – sexism, race and sexual orientation) and even those are enhanced by the editing. Every other one is implied because they briefly agree with the terrible stuff Borat is saying or politely ignore it to carry on with what they’re doing.

When confronted with a disruptive foreigner spouting bigoted sentiments in semi-capable English, would any of us try to extensively educate them on the spot - let alone on camera?! Probably not. We’d do our best to get through the situation with a bit of grace and continue our day – that doesn’t mean we're bigots on our way to the next Klan meeting. Most of the people Borat deals with show a surprising amount of patience for his shock-value-laden actions and words. They put on a pretty good face and just try to finish the interaction. When six polite people invite you to dinner and you shit in a plastic bag and show it to them, they’re going to react very awkwardly while they think it’s a cultural mistake and then with anger when they realize it’s intentional. That’s not humor as far as I’m concerned. Saying awful things about a village of people and having them smile for the camera as you do it because they don’t understand your language isn’t funny either. You gave poor villagers a bit of money and told them to smile and dance for the camera, that's all they know. Calling them whores and rapists to their face doesn't make me laugh.

I’m shocked at the mountains of praise Borat’s getting. How could so many reviewers be doubled over with laughter at this? I was ready to walk out at one point because the concept of punking ordinary people was getting so foul and out of control.

Oddly, I generally find the Jackass TV show and movies extremely funny. That may seem incredibly lowbrow given what I wrote above, but here’s the night and day difference for me – in every Jackass skit the morons choose to endanger themselves and do stupid shit while we watch them carry it out. Pain, stupidity and embarrassment - they’ve got a clear understanding of what they’re in for and they do it anyways. Some of it makes me gag or shake my head, but there’s never any doubt or guilt. It's slapstick taken to a ridiculous over the top extreme. Again, the only bits of Jackass I don’t like are when they involve unsuspecting normal people into their shenanigans.

Borat shows that some Americans are stupid, bigoted assholes and the rest are pretty normal embarrassed people capable of some amazing restraint. That’s no comedic revelation or worthy of praise.

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quote:

Originally posted by Spike Every other one is implied because they briefly agree with the terrible stuff Borat is saying or politely ignore it to carry on with what they’re doing. When confronted with a disruptive foreigner spouting bigoted sentiments in semi-capable English, would any of us try to extensively educate them on the spot - let alone on camera?! Probably not. We’d do our best to get through the situation with a bit of grace and continue our day – that doesn’t mean we're bigots on our way to the next Klan meeting.

It wasn't the hard-liners, or kkk members that were responsible for the mass genocides of our times... It was the people that smiled and carried on with the rest of their day.

quote:

Most of the people Borat deals with show a surprising amount of patience for his shock-value-laden actions and words. They put on a pretty good face and just try to finish the interaction. When six polite people invite you to dinner and you shit in a plastic bag and show it to them, they’re going to react very awkwardly while they think it’s a cultural mistake and then with anger when they realize it’s intentional.

Cultural over-sensitivity is another thing I think Borat makes fun of. C'mon somebody shits in a plastic bag and shows it to you over dinner? I don't care if you're from Timbuktu, you're getting the fuck out of my house.

Another point I will concede is that Cohen's characters have been losing some of their comedic integrity ever since he started to get popular. It's probably a business decision on Cohen's part - he saw what the majority liked about his characters and increased emphasis on that silly slapstick element, and made most of the satire far less subtle. Is that selling out a little? Yeah probably... but the guy just signed a $55m deal for the rights to the Bruno movie. With that kind of money on the line I'd sell out too.
Either way, from the sounds o things I will not find the movie quite aas funny as some of his old skits.

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