quote:

Originally posted by Psy-T how about a child (or teenager) that refuses to forage for himself out of resentment for example?

Then that's probably up to the child or teenager. If the child/teenager decides to commit suicide by fasting (in)directly (which is what you seem to be arguing here), then, well, it's his/her life.

Were you thinking of something else?

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Legally.....if he doesn't put his name on the birth certificate...he doesn't have to pay. Simple as that!!

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Legally, if i hurt someone on my property tresspassing with intent to rob i could be held liable

fuck government law, this should be applied under human law ie: rules that seperate men from children who can produce sperm.

quote:

Originally posted by Lira Then that's probably up to the child or teenager. If the child/teenager decides to commit suicide by fasting (in)directly (which is what you seem to be arguing here), then, well, it's his/her life. Were you thinking of something else?

you created him and had enormous influence on his behavioural patterns yet you're not responsible for his physical and mental well-being?


why is it that you are more responsible for him prior to his development of consciousness than after it?

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personally i would looooove to say men should have a right of refusal of some sort but sadly some backwoods prick somwhere would exploit that. fuck why cant people just stop being pricks anyways what if a man was raped by a chick would he still have to pay support then? or what if he could prove she was like a twisted golddigger having kids just for the support?personally if i was responcible for some god awfull creation... whell then it depends who the mother was if i hated that person im not paying for somthing thats half hers anyways. christ!

quote:

Originally posted by lamp personally i would looooove to say men should have a right of refusal of some sort but sadly some backwoods prick somwhere would exploit that. fuck why cant people just stop being pricks anyways what if a man was raped by a chick would he still have to pay support then? or what if he could prove she was like a twisted golddigger having kids just for the support?personally if i was responcible for some god awfull creation... whell then it depends who the mother was if i hated that person im not paying for somthing thats half hers anyways. christ!

now i love lamp

"What's best in the child's interests"

And is it in the child's best interests to have a parent who did not want this to happen? It is in the child's best interests to have unloving, unhappy parents? No, the child should have parents who are eager to take care of him/her.

quote:

Originally posted by Psy-T you created him and had enormous influence on his behavioural patterns yet you're not responsible for his physical and mental well-being? why is it that you are more responsible for him prior to his development of consciousness than after it?

It's not a matter of consciousness, but choice. Once there's consciousness, there has got to be some freedom of choice. After all, once the child/teenager develops consciousness, what are you to do? Can you protect one from oneself? Your responsibility ends when the person acquires the capacity of being responsible for him/herself.

Obviously, you might want to help the person as much as you'd help a friend, but that's not because you're a parent, but because you're emotionally attached.

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quote:

Originally posted by Lira It's not a matter of consciousness, but choice. Once there's consciousness, there has got to be some freedom of choice. After all, once the child/teenager develops consciousness, what are you to do? Can you protect one from oneself? Your responsibility ends when the person acquires the capacity of being responsible for him/herself. Obviously, you might want to help the person as much as you'd help a friend, but that's not because you're a parent, but because you're emotionally attached.

late term abortion it is then, just abuse the kid as much as you legally can, and if you do it right, you're home-free! (obviously, i'm pushing to extremes here)

anyways, i wanna take this in another direction now:
does artificial intelligence have a right to life, if your answer is not absolute, in what circumstances does it have the right and in what circumstances doesn't it have the right?

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quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles The man and the woman both have a choice whether to have sex. Equality there. The woman has the choice whether to carry the child to term. The man has the choice to -- ?

Change his name and move to Canada?

Really, I wasn't even going to get into who has the responsibility - just contesting the definition people seem to have when it comes to 'taking responsibility'.

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Originally posted by HardTranceProd "What's best in the child's interests" And is it in the child's best interests to have a parent who did not want this to happen? It is in the child's best interests to have unloving, unhappy parents? No, the child should have parents who are eager to take care of him/her.

Yeah, not talking emotional support though. Children need money to survive - they need providers. Of course kids need loving parents to look up to as well, but when it comes to legal responsibilities, I think that both parents should be forced to pay money to support their child. The law isn't there to make people love their kids.

Even if the choice to abort comes to the female's decision...guys should know women a little better before they have sex. Women should know better as well. If guys would make sure to not fuck crazy women, they'd be fine.

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Cost of raising a kid to the age of about 18 where I live is about $450,000 all up, which is the medical, food, schooling and other incidental costs along the way.
Thats with the basics and public schools.
Add in private schools and university until the age of around 21 and its going to be close to the million mark in the local peso's.

So, if theres the nice way which is you want to do the best for your biological offspring, youre going to have to foot some of this bill.
Or there is the hard way, which is having my lawyers take you to court and be subjected to the system. Which will ream you for your share on a weekly basis for the next 18 years and if you dont want to pay, then theyre going to send the sheriff and a couple of debt collectors around to take your stuff.
Essentially this kind of thing comes about because people have been proven time and time again to lack the responsibility for their own actions and it leads to neglect, possibly not because of the single parents fault, but simply the costs of raising them far exceed the single parents income.

It's not about men/women responsibility, sometimes accidents happen and its not about the freedom of choice either.
But reducing the risk of a child being raised in poverty and neglect.

quote:

Originally posted by Lilith It's not about men/women responsibility, sometimes accidents happen and its not about the freedom of choice either. But reducing the risk of a child being raised in poverty and neglect.

Where should we draw the line at measures taken to reducing this sort of thing? We could always sterilize the poor.