yeah i think we all got that already

but thanks

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec yeah i think we all got that already but thanks

Just kiddin man
keep being who you are

quote:

Originally posted by skip even if you're "a bit imaginative", it still doesn't make any of this music to have any relation to bioinformatics. you got the stupid ideas thing wrong here. i don't mean it as a negative thing. IMO it's perfectly fine to have stupid ideas, it's how you act on them what makes you stupid or not. so because i don't think your ideas belong to "the stupid ideas category". well that doesn't make my ideas any more or less anything. you've clearly misunderstood me here. sure nanotech could be used to music production in the future, it could be used for almost anything. that's not the point though. the point is that what does it have to do with the kind of music you're talking about here. would nanotech be used exclusively to make such music only? if not, what point does mentioning nanotech here serve?

no reply? no explanation for using the big words. the longer this goes on the more convinced i am that you nefardec are just what my first impression about you was. and i'm glad if you're able to prove me wrong.

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ok, i'm going to go cry in a corner now, skip doesn't like me, and i've failed to prove myself as a worthy person in his eyes!



did you ever think maybe people have better things to do? i don't even know you

Life is obsolete!


anyway, reading this thread, this book came to my mind.



its hard to read, but its worth it...

nice thread btw!

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec This movement argues that 'modernism' in the classical sense (mies van der rohe, walter gropius, etc) was a half-baked movement that merely swapped aesthetic representation and 'style' from the decadent and decorative to the minimal and industrial without actually overturning society and thought.

i most often view art as entertainment, i believe most people do the same; under that pretext (the one i contend to be the most prelevant) overturning society and/or thought is not a requirement for art.
The changes i (we?) wish to see various forms of art go through are 'merely' the swapping of aesthetic representation, style, and content.

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec These emergent architectures are called many times "parametric" architectures, because they are basically complex computer-generated systems with human-specified variables/parameters that control the specifics of the design. It revolutionary in the sense that these methods change the way one creates, the entire design process, and the discussion is in the process and not necessarily the outcome, because everything is essentially laid out beforehand as an intelligent system (as opposed to a society needing to figure out how to inhabit some arbitrary creation from man with a large ego)

...which is all fine and dandy seeing as architecture (of homes and workplaces mainly) serves more purpose than to entertain; unlike music.

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec I think in the near future there will be emergent musical technology that subverts the age-old definition of music as a discrete and representative form and structure.

in the near future?

• the discrete boundary has been breached by medium of the dj (among others)
  
• the representative form was breached with sound being synthesized to create something new rather than to emulate the old, or even more clearly, with the addition of a randomize button on a synth
  
• the structure has been breached thoroughly by so-called classical musicians, as already discussed in this thread

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec The revolution in music, as with architecture, will come in the process of creation. Some of these processes will completely separate the musician from the musical outcome, by way of parametric, intelligent software.

such software has been in existence for at least 7 years, yet no relevant revolution is in sight.
http://www.hgf-synthesizer.de/se/X-WoF/x-wof3.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20050208...s.com/composer/
http://web.archive.org/web/20030610....com/index.html
http://tunesmithy.co.uk/
http://hp.vector.co.jp/authors/VA01...h/autocomp.html
(i could find more if you want)

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec Through machines we will create something truly organic

and what would this "truly organic"... thing be? what is it that distinguishes between the mechanic, the organic, and the "truly organic"?

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec Even the most "cutting edge" music today really does nothing to change "music". The structures are all the same, the process for making minimal techno is the same as the process for making Filo & Peri - The Anthem. The sounds are simply an aesthetic.

heh....hehe.....hehehhehehahaha

ehm, sorry about that

1. cutting edge music does change "music", it's just the your likelyness of being aware of it is infinitely small
   
2. please show me how the structure is the same between two arbitrary songs: the one i happen to be listening to at the moment (Abercombie, Laverne, Mraz & Nussbaum - Monk Like) and Filo & Peri - The Anthem
   
3. A. nice touch comparing 2 subsubsubgenres that are all but entirely indistinguishable to the great public
   B. however, seeing as i'm not part of that great public, i can answer that making minimal techno is worlds apart from making filo & peri - the anthem, regardless of whether you're actually talking about minimal techno, or about that trendy new tech house (though with the former the distance is greater), if you'd like me to elaborate, i will
   
4. by the way you worded that paragraph it seems as though you posited minimal techno as "cutting edge", it is anything but.
   
5. "The sounds are simply an aesthetic"... "simply"? as if to say "insignificantly"? .....you're speaking about art... and you're reducing its aesthetic content to insignificance? are you an idiot?

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec Granted, the structure of music still maintains an important role in creating ideas about music, the idea of repetition and undifferentiation versus discrete sections, breakdowns, choruses, etc. All these structures though are age-old vestiges of classical culture..... (mabye it' s true that there is something archetypal and human then here, but i think that 'human' is no longer applicable in this age of utter globalization and machines)

correction: they are age-old vestiges of nearly every culture, if not every culture, if not every creature. i'm sure you've heard the cliche "there's nothing new under the sun"; it's generally true.

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec the most innovative thing i have seen out of music recently is the machine called "Reactable" which is a parametric, group-oriented synthesis/performance/sampling device

remember the old modular synths that took up a large room where a bunch of engineers tweaked parameters (you seem to like that word) and patched them up together to synthesize/preform/sample? there's nothing new under the sun.

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec I also feel like the internet has been completely removed from musical experience,

for someone who claims to be picking his words carefully you're doing horribly at it. when ever has the internet been part of the musical experience? was it originally part of the musical experience? who removed it? when, how, and why?

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec for instance, if music of the future is generated from data in real time, parties of the future may be globally informed by the people attending them worldwide, and the actual movement and behavior of the people, rather than merely people reacting to discrete blocks of 'creation'. I think to some degree the DJ has begun this revolution with the idea of the mix

newsflash: good djs already get informed by the people's movements and behaviours.

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec but true progress in the way of music has been consistently stunted by the capitalist notions of music business and music as a commodity, the "song" which is a vestige of old europe

stunted? pushing it. financially unsupported? more likely.

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec If humanity ever overcomes the ills of capitalist commodification of music,

it won't.

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec I believe that we might be making music that is much more biologic, much more human in the sense that it is not created by one person and then consumed by another, but music which is created by machines which are parametrically controlled by the actual people who experience the music....

as a consumer, the albums and singles you buy are a parameter, the track you play from each is another parameter, under most circumstances, you control those parameters.
as a musician, every audible thing is a parameter under your control.

as the consumer/musician hybrid in the utopic (/dystopic) world you theorize, the majority of the people in your setting (whether you're amongst the majority or not) control the parameters; more likely than not, giving you a lesser experience from the standpoint of aesthic enjoyment, and supressing the minorities.

oh, and afterwards, you will be offered to purchase a media with the recording of the night's experience.

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec the future is a future of temporality and spectacle.

the future is a future of being bounded in time and viewable things of a remarkable nature? perfect word choice there. want to obfuscate that further for me?

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec the classical definition of art, architecture, and music as "pieces", discrete by DEFINITION, framed objects in the annals of history will die and give way to ephemeral musical reactions.

as above, the classical 'definitions' of art have been long breached (and in ironic twist, usually by approaches that have came before), ephemeral musical reactions are, and always have been the default, and objects will forever be framed, it's only a question of how, or.. simply an aesthetic, as you'd put it.

___________________
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Jackson, venomX, jamie, Renegade, Konjin, Akridrot, Miss Bliss.
Psy-T - Down The Rabbit Hole (400minute long acid set)

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec ok, i'm going to go cry in a corner now, skip doesn't like me, and i've failed to prove myself as a worthy person in his eyes! did you ever think maybe people have better things to do? i don't even know you

i just think that you use bullshit arguments that don't have anything to do with the subject at hand. and yes, people have better things to do. i did for example when i didn't reply here for 4 or so days. anyway i just think it's weird that one doesn't back his arguments up in any way. and pretty much the only reason for such behavior that i can come up with, is that there aren't any explanations for using the big words and scientific terms that have nothing to do with the subject.
anyway i'm gonna give this up now unless you post something with even half sense in it.

___________________

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@'psy-t' - do you feel better about yourself now?



it's kinda hard to open up a discussion with hostility like that. i mean, literally everything you posted was pretty much just posted in order to refute what weren't even arguments in the first place... does it make you feel important? and you even managed to throw in a few insults and condescending remarks too. good job.


honestly, where are you taking this and for what reason?

skip

please pm me if you honestly care that much

i don't think anyone else wants to read it

look, in hindsight, i probably should used different words to address this audience. i suppose i am rather flowery and imprecise when i write and i should have expected the topic to be hijacked on this account.


in hindsight i probably should not have even posted this here, given the types of people that tend to troll around here

this is something however i am interested in and delving into. if you think my ideas/statements have been crude - well, they are. i'm just making conjectures at this point. i'll make sure to keep them well away from TA in the future. when I have something interesting I'll post it and see if i can get 40 posts decrying my very existence again.

Last edited by nefardec on Apr-09-2007 at 12:14

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec what i mean is such a revolution would mean that one produces music that is a direct result of the technology used to create it, and NOT to achieve some kind of 'effect' or 'atmosphere' or 'style. of course it would have to be a human initiative.

who would want to make music in that fashion other than the "dreaded capitalists"?

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec more or less what techno began as. techno however quickly became seen as a "fashion" or "style" when it was imported to europe, and people were more excited about things it evoked than how it was made.

techno was made by people who loved music using whatever gear they could find/afford, since most of that gear was crappy to begin with (at least in context to the sounds the musicians wanted to produce), they had to 'abuse' it and produce such things as the tb303 squelch. more likely than not, for the musicians, it was about what they made, not how they made it. hence not 'more or less what techno began as', and not at all similiar to the concept you suggested above.

for artists a method is just that, a method; not an aim. (generalization)

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec see what i mean is, you can take any sequencer and replace samples with a different set of samples or patches, and maybe change the tempo, and you can instantly transform it from an epic trance track to an electrohouse track. so what i am suggesting is maybe a return to a time where the process of making music is more closely related to its sound.

samples/patches = sounds

"see what i mean is, you can take any sequencer and replace sounds with a different set of sounds, and maybe change the tempo, and you can instantly transform it from an epic trance track to an electrohouse track. so what i am suggesting is maybe a return to a time where the process of making music is more closely related to its sound."

you are an idiot.

___________________
People who own my ass: Citric Acid, Boomer187, Tribu, Sand Leaper,
Jackson, venomX, jamie, Renegade, Konjin, Akridrot, Miss Bliss.
Psy-T - Down The Rabbit Hole (400minute long acid set)

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec @'psy-t' - do you feel better about yourself now? it's kinda hard to open up a discussion with hostility like that. i mean, literally everything you posted was pretty much just posted in order to refute what weren't even arguments in the first place... does it make you feel important? and you even managed to throw in a few insults and condescending remarks too. good job. honestly, where are you taking this and for what reason?

first off, my reply is an interaction, something you should be happy to receive, as it helps you improve your theory, or discard it if you find the refutations convincing.
secondly, just because you say a statement isn't an argument doesn't make it so.
e.g. i say 1+1=3 and give it a disclaimer saying it is not an argument. you tell me that 1+1=3 is wrong. i reply "you're refuting something that isn't an argument". obviously, i would be right, yes?
and lastly, the hostility is there because you're devaluing the art of discourse, philosophy, and generally, art.


post scriptum (should have been pre scriptum, oh well): do you feel better about yourself now?

___________________
People who own my ass: Citric Acid, Boomer187, Tribu, Sand Leaper,
Jackson, venomX, jamie, Renegade, Konjin, Akridrot, Miss Bliss.
Psy-T - Down The Rabbit Hole (400minute long acid set)