quote:

Originally posted by EvilTree Is anyone else concerned how Abbas dismissed the govt and formed a new one? Hamas is full of shitheads, but they are still legitimately elected by the Palestinian people...

the "shithead" part though...really can't be overlooked.

have you heard what they have done to their Fatah counterparts in Gaza? beyond any modicum of modern diplomacy or partisanship, it's animalistic.

Fatah, with all their faults, was as legitimately elected.

this was a powerplay, pure and simple. savage and illegal. the Palestinian cause because of it has been put back decades literally.

Israel is smart to prepare now. if anyone faults them for that now...theres just no excuse for their stupidity.

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley So, to sum: Yoepus has a dream of an ethnically cleansed Palestine

he can't be for a two state solution? free of Arab prejudice? free of terror?

Hamas can rot in the Gaza. Too bad the people have to be dragged along with them...

quote:

Originally posted by LazFX she pointed me to http://www.faithfreedom.org it is ran by ex Muslims and contains many articles on the growing movement of apostates that have left slam due to the radical teachings.... very interesting web site to say the least... but it is blocked by many countries, especially Islamic Ran countries. I will not give her name or any more details out of respect for her since many in her family hate her with such a passion that even her own brother tried to kill her when they learned of her leaving the faith. that web site is pretty scary....in that it offers a POV of Islam from former Muslims and they seem to know their stuff. The guy even has debates against active Mullahs and even has a reward for any Muslim that can prove that what they state on the site about Mohamed and his teachings are wrong.

Come on LazFX

quote:

the good christian people took on the bad christians. Why can't the muslims do the same? Could it be that all muslims want the same that these coward focks want??

quote:

and instead of calling out the radicals that preach hate, the muslims seem to embrace it by not speaking out and taking thier religion back from the crazy radical leaders that are like a cancer and need to be cut out.. nothing to see here... move along, move along

Are u sure??
that these're the real facts.

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quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo Fatah, with all their faults, was as legitimately elected.

As opposed to Hamas?

And I still don't know why everyone is suddenly hailing Fatah as the good guys! IMO I'd prefer them to Hamas any day but that's me and my opinion, the right-wing people on here seem to hold all the Palestinians (groups) in the same esteam. But now everybody loves Fatah and they are brilliant!

Well mark my words - if this plays out like Israel hopes/has planned it will, and Gaza becomes seperate from the West Bank under Hamas control, then Israel will suffer terribly at the hands of Fatah and their affiliated groups when Israel begins to put into action it's plans to annex large swathes of land in the West Bank. If Fatah cannot control Gaza, then they will want all of West Bank and if Israel is not prepared to withdraw then there will be a third intifada even more bloody than the previous ones because now Fatah will be fighting for it's survival

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo he can't be for a two state solution? free of Arab prejudice? free of terror?

He says he has a "dream" where, to paraphrase, he says he would like to see all the Palestinians fuck off to the Arab states so Israel can annex the West Bank.

I actually didn't think Yoepus thought like that being a member of TranceAddict an all, but his time in America seems to have radicalised him into supporting the Settlers and the establishment of some kind of Greater Israel. It's a good job he isn't actually American or he'd be sent off to do his "national service" manning the Settlements for a year before he came back to America!

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus I too have an unrealistic pathetic dream: Why don't all Arab countries offer refuge and shelter to the poor, poor Palestinians? Israel lets them leave, no one is forcing them to stay. Why do the Arab countries not encourage the poor innocent Palestinians to get out of that mess and to take up normal lifes in peace and quiet in a part of their societies? Did not Europe and USA rescue Jews from the dredge of their internment camps? How many Sudanese/Moroccans are in France? How many Libyans in Italy? How many Vietnamese in the USA? I think it is perhaps the greatest shame and deciet done in the Arab world to force their brethren to stay put in such an anarchic and chaotic situation. If they offer a way out perhpas people will choose a life of normalcy over internal terrorism and external war? And then with less people in one place maybe opinions will cool down and a realistic peace might actually exist in 20-30 years. ... But of course, such is an unrealistic dream

You dont ever get it. Morrocans and Algerians in France CHOSE to come to France, and they dont want to come back. They emigrated to France, not as refugees for most part. My family didnt come to Canada because of some ethnic conflict. But Palestinians that are displaced were forced out by the war, and there's no place for them in overpopulated neighbouring Arab lands that have plenty of problems of their own. Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt are not oil/gas rich and powerful countries. In Saudi Arabia there is actually a strong and powerful Palestinian minority because their country is in well being. BUT NO COUNTRY WOULD WANT TO HAVE MANY THOUSANDS OF REFUGEES CROWDING AROUND FIGHTING FOR YOUR SPACE, JOBS, GOVERNMENT ASSISTANCE, LAND. You cant compare impoverished countries of Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, etc. to the likes of France, US, UK, Canada where there wouldn't be refugee camps because these countries would never allow such an influx of refugees. The ones who get through for most part have money, connections, education i.e. they have purpose and determination. The ones (the majority of all refugees) who are left in the Middle East are poor, uneducated people whom nobody wants. They just want to go home and start their cattle businesses and live quiet farm lives or whatever. Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, etc. etc. have millions of their own poor people to take care of first. Why should they pay for the ethnic "cleansing" of Palestinian people by Israel??? WHY? Why are Arabs always at fault? Its so blatantly clear that it wasnt the Arab states, but Israeli armies who forced out Palestinians as they occupied more and more land.

You always conveniently like to blame Arabs, everyone is at fault but not Israel or its allies. Last time I checked it wasnt Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Saudi Arabia that forced these Palestinians out of their homes. As Israeli armies advanced, they evicted and forced out most Palestinians in its way. Othwerise Palestinians, unarmed, would have stayed in their villages, homes. Gaza, controlled by Egypt, didnt force out Palestinian people. Jordan, in West Bank, didnt force out Palestinians. This is a basic mentality - as Israelis advanced, they chanted "ITS OUR LAND NOW, BITCHES!!!" and so Palestinians fled, while Egypt and Jordan and others fought against that, and somehow Palestinians in West Bank and Jordan didnt run towards advancing Israeli armies.

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Last edited by Magnetonium on Jun-18-2007 at 11:08

You knew it was just a matter of time...

http://www.reuters.com/article/topN...760465320070617

quote:

Originally posted by NeoPhono You knew it was just a matter of time... http://www.reuters.com/article/topN...760465320070617

Get yer own fuckin' thread!

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley As opposed to Hamas? And I still don't know why everyone is suddenly hailing Fatah as the good guys! IMO I'd prefer them to Hamas any day but that's me and my opinion, the right-wing people on here seem to hold all the Palestinians (groups) in the same esteam. But now everybody loves Fatah and they are brilliant! Well mark my words - if this plays out like Israel hopes/has planned it will, and Gaza becomes seperate from the West Bank under Hamas control, then Israel will suffer terribly at the hands of Fatah and their affiliated groups when Israel begins to put into action it's plans to annex large swathes of land in the West Bank. If Fatah cannot control Gaza, then they will want all of West Bank and if Israel is not prepared to withdraw then there will be a third intifada even more bloody than the previous ones because now Fatah will be fighting for it's survival

Geez great job twisting my words! You are right in line to get that promotion to professional Palestinian apologist ASAP. Don't let those pesky things called facts stand in your way!


All I was saying is that if Palestinian society could blow off some of the steam from its kettle it'd better for everyone. Right now the Palestinians don't have the option to migrate because Arab countries make it very, very hard for them. Because of their humanitarian situation you would think they would make it very very easy for them.

All I am saying is if they did make it easy for them things would be better. (Obviously Palestinians would remain, but it would make a two state solution much more viable).

Just to point out in contrast: Israel accepts Jews from across the world for refuge anytime they feel threatened.

Saving thousands from Ethopia, Iran, Iraq, and France

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quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Get yer own fuckin' thread!

Sorry, I didn't want to start Israel/Palestine thread #4,586,723.