quote:

Originally posted by jonSun He was a smart businessman. Religion can be an extremely profitable & powerful business.

ya from a business point of view that's great mentality of course...but i'm talkin from a religious point of view...how can it be considered a religion or fulfill one spiritually if money was the motivation behind this religion that he started?? how's that a religion??

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Originally posted by afterhrsgurl ya from a business point of view that's great mentality of course...but i'm talkin from a religious point of view...how can it be considered a religion or fulfill one spiritually if money was the motivation behind this religion that he started?? how's that a religion??

I agree with what your saying. Its completely fucked.

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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On While I generally agree, I think the same could be said of most any religion.

so you are saying that all or most religions were started bc the goal was to make as much money as possible like in the case of scientology? (the creator said it himself)

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard And so you shall... Distinguishing a cult from a religion can be a difficult task as the two have very similar, moreover, the terms religion and cult are often misused for connotative reasons. A religion, in essence, is a dogmatic system of belief and perscribed practices based on faith in something that cannot be proven. Generally, religions will contain a method of worship in devotion to a deity(or deities), who's example or directives are used as the basis for a moral code or laws governing behaviour. Cults are also a dogmatic system of belief and perscribed practice based on faith in something that cannot be proven. Generally, cults will also contain a method of worship in devotion to a deity/deities; however, they will also contain methods of worship in devotion to objects or leaders that may be used as the basis for a moral code or laws governing behaviour. The key here is that the deity is replaced by either an object or individual as the basis for authority and object of worship. The difference can be very subtle or glaring and quite often religion and cults will intertwine. A good example of a glaring difference between cult and religion can be seen in the Branch Davidian cult. This cult group (while based on christianity) worshiped a single person as a diety and that individual was held as the authority on everything, unfallable, unquestionable. Because David Coresh became the only source for believe, the sole holder of authority and the object of worship, it is safe to say this group was a cult. Many would argue that the Roman Catholic Church is also a cult in that it holds the pope to be an ultimate authority. In many ways the RC could be viewed as a cult, however, such a view would be based on only a superficial understanding of the church (as a deeper exploration of the church doctrine reveals that the pope's authority is only absolute if his missives are valid.... they can only be valid if the chuch, ie. followers of christ, accept it as such). While the RC church as a whole cannot be considered a cult, there are many sects within catholocism that can be. There are a multitude of catholic sects that have a fierce devotion to various saints, objects considered holy, plots of land, even persons thought to be prophets, which could be considered cults, as they base their practice not on the faith but on the individual person or object. Historically, the Knight's Templor are possibly Catholocism's largest and most famous cult. Another good example of a subtle cult would be the jewish sect found in Ethiopia, unfortunately I cannot recall their name. Rather then worshiping Yahweh these jews worship an object they believe to be the arc of the covenent. Many of the generally accepted practices of Judeism are abandoned in favour of devotion to the arc. In worshiping this object rather then the diety of Yahweh they become a cult within the larger religion. With regard to scientology specifically, I would deem it to be a religion rather then a cult. Many people characterize scientology as a cult because it is very guarded and very aggressive in its recruitment of potential followers but this is a misunderstanding of what a cult is and the use of the term is an attempt to evoke a connotative response rather then due to it's dictive accuracy. Scientology has a perscribed set of practices (although less rigid then most religions) based on faith in an unprovable position. The do not have a system of belief based on the authority of a person or object, which is essentially the dividing point between cult and religion. Alas, thanks to the general watering down of the English language the line between cult and religion becomes blurrier with each passing day. For most people it comes down to connotation... if they believe a system of believe to be insideous, toxic, or invalid they deem it a cult. In truth, the similarities between cults and religions are far more numerous then the differences... so much so that I would speculate all religions have cults within them.

now that was a fucking good answer!

im too biased, i'll keep calling them a cult, but only for the connotative reasons you have listed

just one other question- surely a religion has some kind of "faith" in a "higher power"? can aliens be considered a higher power? but yeah, the other distinctions between cult and religion are pretty obvious now that you've pointed them out, cheers

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Jainism doesn't really have a "higher power."

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN now that was a fucking good answer! im too biased, i'll keep calling them a cult, but only for the connotative reasons you have listed just one other question- surely a religion has some kind of "faith" in a "higher power"? can aliens be considered a higher power? but yeah, the other distinctions between cult and religion are pretty obvious now that you've pointed them out, cheers

I fail to see why there should be a difference between aliens and gods. Both are imaginary. If Scientology see this aliens as god than so be it,

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Originally posted by Abercrombie

wow that was crazy. i do remember hearing about the kid who stabbed his mother 77x.

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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On Well this is a decent point of discussion then. I think you took both of those terms from the same sentence of mine in which I said that humans were, in general, "broken" in some form or another. Do you disagree with this? Like I said before, I don't think that this is how it's always been. I think we're in a pretty sad state of affairs at the moment. If you look at human history, there's always been potential for revolt; potential for change, but in our current world, thought is prescribed to you through a little black box in every living room. How can things change (read: develop) when people's very thoughts are under some form of control or another? The drug industry is enormous and reaches practically everywhere in the world. It's also completely legal with the correct documentation. I'm not denouncing drugs in general. But when everyone is on one form of prescription or another, where does that leave us? Under the rule of people ready to profit from our dependency. And when these drugs numb our ability to reason, where will our revolution be? Once more, I'm not necessarily defending Scientology as a religion. I am, however, compliant in its supposed understanding that people should come to realization on their own terms rather than resorting to pills or televised repetition.

Damn, I didn't think any COR post could go that deep. My hat's off to you sir.

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Originally posted by narcism you know what i find quite weird about this, they are so anti psychiatrists and medications for mental illness and they snub the mentally challenged. Yet, john travolta has a son who has autism

They claim to hate psychology, but their methods used to "heal" people derive from 1950s/60s psychology (but in combination with sci-fi and a complete abuse of logic and sanity).

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Jainism doesn't really have a "higher power."

Jainism is very closely related to Hinduism, where both religions believe in the existence of "universal oneness" or the final "truth". Depending on the way you look at it, the "truth" may either be given a "form" as in a God or higher power, or may simply exist as an abstract formless concept. Both views are perfectly valid and compatible.

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Last edited by Omega_M on Aug-31-2007 at 10:47

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Originally posted by narcism you know what i find quite weird about this, they are so anti psychiatrists and medications for mental illness and they snub the mentally challenged. Yet, john travolta has a son who has autism

isnt that bruce willis?