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Originally posted by trewqy no problems. Praise be to Allah.

lol I'm glad you feel the same way.

Probably the most entertaining part of all this is just how much satisfaction it gives me to see how blind many of you are to your own zealotry.

It's like watching two groups of children on the playground fighting over whose parents story about where Santa comes from is true - you just want to make the other side believe sooooo bad.



And Rich, I'd gladly get into the "Which side has more obnoxious characters?" debate with you - because it isn't how many, but the shear fact that I find you all obnoxious, that matters.

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Originally posted by RJT Probably the most entertaining part of all this is just how much satisfaction it gives me to see how blind many of you are to your own zealotry. It's like watching two groups of children on the playground fighting over whose parents story about where Santa comes from is true - you just want to make the other side believe sooooo bad. And Rich, I'd gladly get into the "Which side has more obnoxious characters?" debate with you - because it isn't how many, but the shear fact that I find you all obnoxious, that matters.

this post shows ur no different from us, u fence sitter!

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Originally posted by fayraree this post shows ur no different from us, u fence sitter!

I'm not on the fence though, I have my beliefs, and they are mine.

I don't have this compulsion that seems so prevalent here to prove that I'm right to anyone else - history might well prove me wrong.

What matters is that my opinion on matters of both science and faith don't push me to tell me how wrong you, or anyone else is - especially about claims that simply cannot be proven (i.e. the existence, or lack thereof, of a "god" of any sort).

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Originally posted by RJT What matters is that my opinion on matters of both science and faith don't push me to tell me how wrong you, or anyone else is - especially about claims that simply cannot be proven (i.e. the existence, or lack thereof, of a "god" of any sort).

We're trying to avoid that aspect where we can because we realize it's futile.

However, I only came into this whole subject on Saudis/Muhammad to try and dispel some misconceptions. I don't want anyone to convert here (which is what your posts are implying that both sides are doing) but we are merely enlightening each other on FACTS and perspectives that we might not have previously known existed!

This type of discourse and tolerance is what makes me happy to be a part of the liberal democratic system . Not too many people care to engage in this type of exchange (I never did in all my years growing up with the Australians in my compound and Americans/Europeans in my school) because people were too busy making money...

...which brings me to another rule. After grade 9 in my high school, I had to leave the country to pursue the rest of my high school elsewhere, so I returned to Toronto and went to boarding school. The American school I went to opened up grades 10-12 only about 4 or 5 years ago. Before then, foreign children were not allowed to have foreign education in the country past the age of 17. The government felt that past this age, there could be a negative effect of foreign ideologies on the Saudi public. It has opened up recently, but that just shows you the level of control the government had to take in order to remain true to its values. The above was not a law; I recall it was just a practice that was respected. If your kid didn't leave for grade 10 abroad, there would be some complication with the renewal of the visa for your father...lol something like that.

You may think that's weird or denying some form of human rights, but it's consistent with Moral Hazard's point that if you're not getting what you want in this country, by all means, LEAVE!

Last edited by on Nov-30-2007 at 16:29

I'm just surprised that for all our intelligence we're still asking the same questions man has been asking since the dawn of time. Evolution my ass.

I don't see many folks trying to avoid that aspect.

And my posts weren't directed specifically at you.

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And what questions are u guys asking?

Why are we here? how did the universe come about? Whats after life?

I dont care and frankly, I'm not interested. Its such a wonder that people have to find some sort of meaning behind their pathetic lives that they come up with more ludicrous explanations that somehow make them feel "at peace" with oneself.

thnxb2pac

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Originally posted by bas we're just rolling in that sweet sweet Beatport chedda SON. I PUT DIAMONDS IN MY SALT SHAKER SO I CAN HAVE CRUSHED DIAMONDS ON MY FOOD...it makes my dookie twinkle!!!

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Originally posted by RJT Fuck do I hate threads like these. To answer whoever the hell it was that asked why I thought Dawkins was a twat it's simply because he's every bit as closed minded as the people he rails against. And with that, I'm done. You kids enjoy your little argument.

What would expect when there aren't any good arguments from theists?

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Originally posted by dj_alfi change your avatar for fucks sake.

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Originally posted by trewqy Actually something CAN come out of nothing. Do some research other than the bible. Anyways, i do hope that most of the theists here realise that we're not mocking any of your beliefs. Science hasnt figured out everything,but we're getting there. In the mean time, go ahead.. pray.

I don't read the bible, nor am I religious, I am more agnostic (though raised catholic). So don't assume. Some people get confused with philosophical arguments (like I am making) to theological or "religious" arguments. I'm saying that MOST things are created..organisms, art is creation, we are creators of all sorts of things (technology being an example). So if MOST things are created, then how can something just "poof" appear rather than have somehow being designed by something (not saying it's God, but it's got to be something out there) not just appear out of nowhere. Something could come out of nothing, but something would have had to come to form nothing (a void essentially, it just doesn't "exist", it's there, but how did it get there?).

It's the same idea with the universe. Are you scientific objectivists (fundamentalists) oppose to philosophy? Cause science came out of philosophy, so did most disciplines, and philosophy asks questions...just as science does. But philosophy doesn't purport to be the truth and the absolute truth....like science and religion does (most). I'm not arguing for either side, but merely trying to show that there is a common ground between them rather than extremes. Can't you guys argue philosophically rather than purporting to think that everything a scientist says is truth? Cause scientific thinking changes as more discoveries are made, so not much is stuck in stone (And isn't that just like the bible...everything in the bible is stuck in stone and no kind of questioning can be accepted? how funny how both extremes are actually so much the same).

Last edited by Spirit5 on Nov-30-2007 at 17:33

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Originally posted by Beatflux What would expect when there aren't any good arguments from theists?

Again, believe what you want to - but at the end of the day I don't think the "scientists" and the "theists" are fundamentally all that far from one another, and think it's people who do that are the cause of the hatred and evil that arise from either.

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