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Originally posted by George Smiley FFS! I said I don't know what the specific tax rates are in America! Not that I agree with them! Who the fuck gives you the right to dictate that this thread is about America? All our countries have inheritance tax so why don't you try being a little less of a stereotypical ignorant American?

George, I'm not dictating anything (you're the fan of dictators, remember?)

The title of the thread is "The Death Tax." The title obviously doesn't specify which country the author is talking about but the author (Donnybrasco) was quite specific in his opening remarks that he was talking SPECIFICALLY about the current tax in the U.S.

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originally posted by Donnybrasco So the Death Tax (which sunsets in 2010 but will be up for potential renewal by the time our new President is in office) is one of my personal major concerns for this election year...and yet ANOTHER reason that I will once again, not be voting Democrat.

Quit being so fucking obtuse.

And for what it's worth, I provided a simple argument against a death tax in any society but you felt the need to delve into your personal tirade of incoherent nonsense. My original argument on the death tax (any death tax in any fucking nation in the fucking known universe) stands.

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The government did not create the wealth, it should not be the government's place to arbitrarily take possession of that wealth just because someone has passed on. The rights of the creator to pass the fruits of his/her labor on to those of his/her choosing should always supercede the will of the government to attempt to forcibly steal that wealth for its own coffers in any true democracy based on individual rights and justice. Furthermore, the amount of wealth is irrelevant in this argument as it is the principle of the "death tax" that is being debated, not how it should be applied to those in the highest income brackets.

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Sorry but you've done it with every post you've written in this thread

I disagree. Quit playing bait-and-switch.

Inheritance tax is no different to income tax

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Originally posted by George Smiley Inheritance tax is no different to income tax

Well thank god we got that sorted out. I mean if only you'd made such a comprehensive, thoughtful and rational argument 5 pages ago we could've saved plenty of time.

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Originally posted by Capitalizt I don't think many libertarians are against the idea of government providing police and military forces. According to the libertarian philosophy, protecting people from physical violence is one of the only (if not THE only) legitimate function of government.

+1!

I would even go so far that I would pay a 5% salestax for that to exist and function! There would be no other taxes.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN ...CEOs et al. dont make this money all by themselves.

??? What is that supposed to mean?

Really Raisin, sometimes you say things that just leave me wondering if you ever went to school and learned anything.

You guys have this view that a CEO "seizes" power by force then proceeds to rape the company he works for for all it's worth, whilst the poor, poor employees (or "slaves" as you guys like to think of them) suffer as the CEO plays golf and gets fat on free corporate lunches all day long.

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The thing about money? It makes you do things that you don't want to do

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Originally posted by donnybrasco ??? What is that supposed to mean? Really Raisin, sometimes you say things that just leave me wondering if you ever went to school and learned anything. You guys have this view that a CEO "seizes" power by force then proceeds to rape the company he works for for all it's worth, whilst the poor, poor employees (or "slaves" as you guys like to think of them) suffer as the CEO plays golf and gets fat on free corporate lunches all day long.

no, you just have a funny way of choosing to interpret what people say, because you are just THAT one-sided.

what i was saying is that the majority of money made by any corporation is made by the workers, the CEOs etc dictate the structure and direction of the company, but the goods and/or services provided by any company are generated by those at the bottom, not at the top of the corporate ladder.

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Originally posted by donnybrasco So the Death Tax (which sunsets in 2010 but will be up for potential renewal by the time our new President is in office) is one of my personal major concerns for this election year...and yet ANOTHER reason that I will once again, not be voting Democrat. I don't know how anyone can justify stepping in at possibly the worst time in a person's life, and essentially stealing half of what your close relative owned (after the deductible, of course). It's basically a socialist tax...and a Democrat notion that somehow, it's ok to diffuse wealth and punish people for being too successful in life. It's a sickening, unfair, ruinous tax that every time I see some Politician defending, I want to kick my T.V. in.

and you are concerned because someone you know has 2 million waiting for you? plus, with a crafty tax attorney rich people avoid far more than that; a common saying is that you only pay an estate tax if you want to. furthermore, you can easily avoid the estate tax by giving the property to a spouse (there are tons of other ways to avoid it and that's why estate planners make $$$).

one benefit that you will lose because of the repeal is what is called a "stepped up" basis in the assets you receive from the person who died. Essentially, that means when you get property from someone who died you get to treat the property like you just bought it at the current fair market value so that when you sell it in the future you don't have to pay as much tax on the sale (you are normally taxed on the difference in purchase price and sales price - it's more complicated than that, but you get the point). You get this benefit even if there is no estate tax. And since most people don't pay estate tax this is a huge benefit for everyone. With the repeal of the estate tax this benefit is gone. Therefore, someone who would have received a house from their father who died, which would have had a stepped up basis (even though no estate tax was paid) and a resulting lower tax on the eventual sale of the house, will now have to treat the house as if he purchased the house at the same price his father did, and the tax will be much higher. The loss of the stepped up basis affect far more people than the repeal of a tax that applies to very few rich people.

It's uninformed people like you don't even pay the tax, who rally for the cause of a few rich people, that cause the masses to lose this important benefit. do some research first!

Last edited by jerZ07002 on Feb-25-2008 at 04:08

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Originally posted by Shakka Bottom line: The government did not create the wealth, it should not be the government's place to arbitrarily take possession of that wealth just because someone has passed on.

Really....so the infrastructure created by the government played no role in the creation of the wealth. The market regulations that allowed that person the fair opportunity to earn that money had no role. PLEASE!!!

Even if you won't say that much, i'm sure you would agree that the government assisted in the preservation of the wealth by maintaining a police force that prevented people from forcibly stealing that wealth.

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 and you are concerned because someone you know has 2 million waiting for you?

Nope. Are your presumptions always this trite?

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 plus, with a crafty tax attorney rich people avoid far more than that; a common saying is that you only pay an estate tax if you want to.

PLEASE explain to me how ANYONE has EVER gotten out of paying estate tax on a taxable inheritance? You're pulling crap out of your ass and holding it up as fact, when it is nothing but bad gossip.

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 furthermore, you can easily avoid the estate tax by giving the property to a spouse (there are tons of other ways to avoid it and that's why estate planners make $$$).

Are you saying that if I get an inheritance from a relative, and I don't want to pay tax on it, I can turn it over to my spouse and pay no tax?

Answer this question clearly first, and then I'll address the rest of your sophomoric post

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The thing about money? It makes you do things that you don't want to do

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Originally posted by donnybrasco Are you saying that if I get an inheritance from a relative, and I don't want to pay tax on it, I can turn it over to my spouse and pay no tax?

Don't know the rules in America (I'm sure you can look it up) but in the UK here's one exception to inheritance tax:

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if your estate passes to your husband, wife or civil partner and you are both domiciled in the UK there is no Inheritance Tax to pay even if it's above the £300,000 nil rate band http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTa...usts/DG_4016736

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 Really....so the infrastructure created by the government played no role in the creation of the wealth. The market regulations that allowed that person the fair opportunity to earn that money had no role. PLEASE!!!

I fail to see how this is really relevant. These are all things that have been bought and paid for in the past with taxpayer funds.

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Even if you won't say that much, i'm sure you would agree that the government assisted in the preservation of the wealth by maintaining a police force that prevented people from forcibly stealing that wealth.

Well that is (or at least should be) a government's primary function (protecting the rights of its citizens). I'm not sure where you're trying to go with any of this.

Last edited by Shakka on Feb-25-2008 at 14:31