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Originally posted by Shade Not to sound like an ass, but doesn't that sort of negate what you said a moment ago? I don't see this as anything but a rather poorly done commercial work - whether Armin and Shah like it or not is irrelevant. "Just by listening", I've formed an opinion on the body of their work.

How is it irrelevant? So If I made a sound that "I like" but everybody deemed it to be 'commercial', that means my reasons for making it are not important? Come on! First and foremost, music is self-expression, whatever that expression may be. I know for a fact that Armin makes records that HE wants to make, not to sell a lot of records. Someone in his position doesn't need to rely on record sales for an income, I'm pretty sure he makes tons more gigging than off the music, as pretty much does any artist in any genre of music.

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Originally posted by smakmagik It is not trance, the vocals are cliched, the vocalist is completely off-key, and this is apparantly a collaboration between the god of 'trance' and the king of balaeric music. How can you defend something like this? It's not that its not our kind of music, that is subjective, its just SHIT music. It's not a matter of taste, but a matter of quality. How you cannot see that is beyond me.

I am not defending this record and personally speaking, it's not my thing either, but that's the beauty of music, everybody likes something else.

What I am defending is simply the right for the artist to express himself musically. It's a bit difficult to see things from this perspective unless you are an artist yourself.

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Arnej MySpace

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Originally posted by 8Wonders I am not defending this record and personally speaking, it's not my thing either, but that's the beauty of music, everybody likes something else. What I am defending is simply the right for the artist to express himself musically. It's a bit difficult to see things from this perspective unless you are an artist yourself.

Mate, have you seen the video interview where he bashes Dj Sammy for 'ruining the trance scene' by making music and calling it trance??

He can make whatever he wants, god help the people who buy it and still worship him, but his hypocritical attitude just pisses me off.

Dj Sammy should sue the piece of shit

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Originally posted by 8Wonders How is it irrelevant? So If I made a sound that "I like" but everybody deemed it to be 'commercial', that means my reasons for making it are not important? Come on! First and foremost, music is self-expression, whatever that expression may be. I know for a fact that Armin makes records that HE wants to make, not to sell a lot of records. Someone in his position doesn't need to rely on record sales for an income, I'm pretty sure he makes tons more gigging than off the music, as pretty much does any artist in any genre of music.

I don't doubt that Armin makes more off of gigging than he does off of his tracks (although I'm sure he makes plenty off both with the name that he's made for himself). In any case, that wasn't my point.

Let's take the example of a new producer who doesn't have a clue about working whatever program he's purchased. He might love whatever it is he's doing (which is very important), but at the same time it's also extremely important to realize that quality - at least to some extent - is objective. The same applies here, regardless of whether the two artists in question have the capability of proving themselves as better than that.

It's important that for an artist to like whatever he/she is doing. There is, however, a factor where something becomes decidedly poor, commercial and cheesey and it is the artists responsibility to know where that line is drawn.

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Originally posted by Shade I don't doubt that Armin makes more off of gigging than he does off of his tracks (although I'm sure he makes plenty off both with the name that he's made for himself). In any case, that wasn't my point. Let's take the example of a new producer who doesn't have a clue about working whatever program he's purchased. He might love whatever it is he's doing (which is very important), but at the same time it's also extremely important to realize that quality - at least to some extent - is objective. The same applies here, regardless of whether the two artists in question have the capability of proving themselves as better than that. It's important that for an artist to like whatever he/she is doing. There is, however, a factor where something becomes decidedly poor, commercial and cheesey and it is the artists responsibility to know where that line is drawn.

The comment about money is a valid point because whenever someone says 'sell out', clearly they are talking about just an easy way of making money, and I'm just trying to show that Armin doesn't need records for that.

You are comparing apples and oranges there. You are comparing an already established artist, with 10+ years of experience producing and DJ and with a good understanding of what records work and what don't, vs someone who is just starting out.

Poor or not, that is all subjective. Some like Cygnus X - Superstrings is godly, some think it's cheesy as fuck, but whose opinion is the more valid one?

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Arnej MySpace

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Originally posted by 8Wonders Poor or not, that is all subjective. Some like Cygnus X - Superstrings is godly, some think it's cheesy as fuck, but whose opinion is the more valid one?

You miss the point again. People may or may not LIKE Superstrings, but the quality of the production is above a certain standard. Same can't be said of Going Wrong.

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Originally posted by smakmagik Mate, have you seen the video interview where he bashes Dj Sammy for 'ruining the trance scene' by making music and calling it trance?? He can make whatever he wants, god help the people who buy it and still worship him, but his hypocritical attitude just pisses me off. Dj Sammy should sue the piece of shit

I have seen it and it's quite funny and true

Dj Sammy - Heaven ... no matter what you may think of this Armin record, it doesn't even come within 100 light years of that in terms of cheese

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Arnej MySpace

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Originally posted by 8Wonders I have seen it and it's quite funny and true Dj Sammy - Heaven ... no matter what you may think of this Armin record, it doesn't even come within 100 light years of that in terms of cheese

He didn't say cheese, he said trance. Dj Sammy - Heaven is wayyyyyy more 'trance' than this.

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Originally posted by smakmagik He didn't say cheese, he said trance. Dj Sammy - Heaven is wayyyyyy more 'trance' than this.

I think we agree to disagree then. I'd call Heaven anything but trance.

I should remix this, just to piss everyone else off

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Arnej MySpace

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Originally posted by 8Wonders I think we agree to disagree then. I'd call Heaven anything but trance. I should remix this, just to piss everyone else off

is not trance but compared to going wrong, is trance

yeah, that doesn't make sense but wtvr

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Originally posted by 8Wonders Reaching for a wider audience does not make you a sell out. What's wrong with wanting to expose your music to as many people as possible? Hell what's the purpose of sites like myspace, it's to further your sound to as many as possible. I know it's what I want, personally speaking. If I wanted to make music just for myself, I'd do that and not send it to anyone else.

Because you can do that without making music like this to a "target audience"

Making music for ones self does not mean no one else but you will like it. It means you make music that you believe in and not what you think someone else wants to hear. Also, if Armin likes this track then he has pretty poor taste. Music is subjective to a point, you can't say that a Britney Spears song is just as good as Sia tune "because its all subjective". In terms of what people like, yes, but in terms of art, no. These lyrics are fluffy, superficial, and stereotypical. The track is formulaic and uses the same elements we've all heard over and over in the past. And once again, I'm sure people will like this track, just as lots of people like music that I don't find interesting or artistically inspiring, but I am allowed to voice my opinions on a forum meant for discussing music, just as you are. I fully understand who this track is trying to appeal to, and they are not the kind of people posting in this thread for the most part.

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Originally posted by ******** Seplling don't demonstrate intelligence and educatoin - knowing does.

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Originally posted by 8Wonders I think we agree to disagree then. I'd call Heaven anything but trance. I should remix this, just to piss everyone else off

Gotta love the double standards.

It's good to know the money hungry whores can rely on you to represent them whenever they are being bashed on these forums, though.

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Latest releases:
Endless Cycles [Capital Heaven]
The Charlatan [Morphosis]