Agreed, it's a small tax break that's mostly a play for younger voters (who I would guess are not as pro-PC as the older generation.) That said, it benefits me so I like it

fair enough. nothing wrong with admitting that you like a policy that would benefit YOU :P

I see this as money thrown away, the more I think about it. This is NOT significant enough to make the difference between someone buying a house or not...ditto for spurring jobs in the contruction business. Again, if up to $750 is going to make or break someone buying, they have no business buying in the first place. Throw that 200 mil somewhere else, IMHO.


I caught only a brief bit of this morning's announcements from Dion and Layton, but liked what Dion had to say regarding post-secondary education.

For the record, and you can search any of my old posts, I have NEVER had sympathy for students who cry about tuition rates. I think we have it pretty good here and you SHOULD contribute to the costs of your education (and tuition is but a FRACTION of the actual cost).

What I've advocated is accessibility...making it easier to obtain a loan, grant, etc. Dion went a step further than lame tax credits that you have to claim and wait to receive.

please correct me if I slip up, but from what I recall:

- $450 million (per year, I think?) for research grants
- Quarterly $1000 grant for students, paid with or around the time of the GST rebates. This partially alleviates fronting all costs and waiting for a tax refund in the spring.
- the $1000 is reduced to $250 for those with jobs (I think that's what he said)
- $5000 in OSAP is *guaranteed*, regardless of family income.
- loan interest rates capped at Prime + 0.5%
- interest free grace period following graduation is extended from 6 months to 2 years.

I think these are all worthy measures that will have direct, positive impact on the majority of students, not just those who meet certain criteria. I think the 5k OSAP guarantee is a huge win and the quarterly 1k payments will help many students with living and transportation costs DURING the school year, rather than having to file their return, possibly also transfer the tuition credit to parents and wait for their return, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT please correct me if I slip up, but from what I recall: - $450 million (per year, I think?) for research grants - Quarterly $1000 grant for students, paid with or around the time of the GST rebates. This partially alleviates fronting all costs and waiting for a tax refund in the spring. - the $1000 is reduced to $250 for those with jobs (I think that's what he said) - $5000 in OSAP is *guaranteed*, regardless of family income. - loan interest rates capped at Prime + 0.5% - interest free grace period following graduation is extended from 6 months to 2 years. I think these are all worthy measures that will have direct, positive impact on the majority of students, not just those who meet certain criteria. I think the 5k OSAP guarantee is a huge win and the quarterly 1k payments will help many students with living and transportation costs DURING the school year, rather than having to file their return, possibly also transfer the tuition credit to parents and wait for their return, etc.

those are very nice improvements indeed.

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$4000 a year grant for ALL students? Say what?

I don't think extending the interest free period accomplishes anything. If you can't find a job of some kind within say, a year max, you chose the wrong degree. Isn't the interest you aren't required to pay during the grace period just tacked on later anyways? If that's true, the only thing that accomplishes is more interest revenue for the government.

I want to find out more details, but I have a feeling the 'grant' just offsets the tax credit claimed later?

If that's correct, it makes more sense, meaning students get money during the year, rather than having to wait to claim tuition credits at tax time. I think "grant" thus might have been the wrong word (but I'm sure that's what he said).

the gov't doesn't earn anything on loans though, does it? does the gov't not merely guarantee the loans provided by the banks? previously, you negotiated your loan with your own bank and now they're capping the interest rate at Prime + 0.5% (which is a relatively good rate, by loan/PLC standards).

it's not really interest tacked on at the end, as you're still making small principal repayments during the grace period, no? so if you're reducing principal for 2 years (instead of 6 months) then in addition to enjoying a lower payment obligation for those 2 years, the principal balance will be lower by the time interest is applied, so your overall payment (and interest payable) is lower too. that's a big win for grads.

I think that extending the interest-free period is also significant for those who are choosing education for the sake of education or to gain access to employment in modest positions vs. education leading to more 'lucrative' career options.

nothing wrong with pursuing an MA in English...but clearly career prospects are different vs. pursuing an MBA

I think a post-secondary education develops skills, regardless of the subject matter. improved work habits, critical thinking skills, general discipline and comprehension, etc. so why not give everyone a break who has chosen to 'better' themselves even if it doesn't necessarily improve their career prospects? An educated population is worth more than simply the "job skills" it posesses, IMHO.

I'm a firm believer in improving accessibility to education. I just don't believe that current costs are excessive at all. Students crying about tuition costs get ZERO sympathy from me. I had to work every year AND take a loan to pay for school and everyone else can do the same. I think easy access to loans and flexible repayment is all that should be expected from the gov't.

Last edited by MarkT on Sep-17-2008 at 17:28

actually, here are some details...so the grants do indeed replace the tax credits:

http://www.thestar.com/FederalElection/article/500684

quote:

Dion promises support for students, research Liberal plan would provide grants, bursaries directly to post-secondary students Richard Brennan OTTAWA BUREAU LONDON, Ont. - Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion today announced a major overhaul of grants and student loans to assist college and university students struggling with the high cost of getting a post secondary school education. It's part of a $1.2 billion four-year plan that Dion said a Liberal government would introduce to not only help students but dramatically increase indirect funding to post secondary school. "We have to increase support for students to make sure university and college is accessible to all Canadians. The future productivity and economic success of Canada depends on the investments we make in research and development today," Dion said during a press conference at University of Western Ontario.. Dion said a Liberal government would make post-secondary education more accessible by: • providing 200,000 needs-based bursaries of up to $3,500 per year by the fourth year of the plan. • providing 100,000 access grants of up to $4,000 per year by the fourth year. • ensuring that every student is eligible for a $5,000 student loan regardless of parental income. • guaranteeing a lower interest rate for all student loans, extending the grace period on repayment post graduation from six months to two years. "Innovation, new ideas and processes are key components of productivity and ultimately, future economic growth. The direct and indirect funds we invest in research and development today will drive the economy of the future,". Dion said. The Liberals say the only new assistance full-time students have received under the Conservative government is a tax credit for textbooks worth less than $10 per month. As well, a student must earn almost $20,000 a year to benefit fully from existing education tax credits. Dion said a Liberal government would ensure that students benefit from support when they need it by replacing the existing tuition and education credits with an upfront Education Grant payable to each student every three months at the same time as the GST rebate is paid to most students. According to the announcement, this grant, when combined with the GST rebate received by most students, will be worth about $1,000 cash per full-time undergraduate, postgraduate or college student per year. Students who work will also receive an additional $250 in their pocket as a result of the Green Shift's enriched and refundable employment credit. Over the next four years and in cooperation with the provinces, this fund will allow for the government to provide 200,000 needs-based bursaries of up to $3,500 per year.

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT fair enough. nothing wrong with admitting that you like a policy that would benefit YOU :P I see this as money thrown away, the more I think about it. This is NOT significant enough to make the difference between someone buying a house or not...ditto for spurring jobs in the contruction business. Again, if up to $750 is going to make or break someone buying, they have no business buying in the first place.

I'm going thru the process of buying a house, and let me tell you any savings are welcome.

Just a few examples of money gone thru the drain to buy a house...

notary, 1200$
welcome tax 3500$
moving costs 1500$
house inspection 600$
proprety tax balance 1800$
CMHC mortgage insurance 7150$

etc etc etc... the question, would want to keep that 750$ in your pocket, or send it to ottawack? Would you spend that money on your kids, or ...

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Relevant to those buying a house:

The federal government announced the changes at the beginning of August, with the new regulations going into effect October 15.

The three most significant are:

-the end of the 40-year amortization
-the requirement for borrowers to have a minimum credit score of 620
-end of zero-down mortgages

http://www.torontosun.com/newhomesa...12/6749666.html

http://www.fin.gc.ca/news08/08-051e.html

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quote:

Originally posted by Skipper $4000 a year grant for ALL students? Say what? I don't think extending the interest free period accomplishes anything. If you can't find a job of some kind within say, a year max, you chose the wrong degree. Isn't the interest you aren't required to pay during the grace period just tacked on later anyways? If that's true, the only thing that accomplishes is more interest revenue for the government.

With thinking like this, liberal arts will die eventually. (and considering how many companies doesn't appreciate liberal arts degrees)

quote:

Originally posted by malek ottawack

LMAO!

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quote:

Originally posted by chinamon not true. i say "ugh" but i am a tranny.

quote:

Originally posted by kotsy lol colour me retarded

quote:

Originally posted by malek I'm going thru the process of buying a house, and let me tell you any savings are welcome. Just a few examples of money gone thru the drain to buy a house... notary, 1200$ welcome tax 3500$ moving costs 1500$ house inspection 600$ proprety tax balance 1800$ CMHC mortgage insurance 7150$ etc etc etc... the question, would want to keep that 750$ in your pocket, or send it to ottawack? Would you spend that money on your kids, or ...

of course. *anyone* would appreciate saving up to $750. I bought abuot 1.5 years ago and wouldn't pass up the savings either.

I'm just saying that it's a fluffy vote grab and an unnecessary expenditure of $200 million (CPC's est. costs of implementing the plan).

I also think that is is NOT going to result in many more people deciding to buy and NOT going to create new jobs, despite Harper's statements to the contrary.

Swamper, those are the changes I mentioned earlier. If the CPC was truly interested "helping" with the real estate market, they would have tweaked the qualification criteria for those products, instead of eliminating them altogether. AFAIK, the 620 score (prev. 580, I believe) is still up for debate.

For the record, sure that 750$ won't make or brake buying a house, and Harper might be pushing it a bit, but he's on track with his ideology, less money to the government for a smaller govt and more money in citizen's pocket...

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