And for the record, I have no doubts that the Holocaust happened.

I also have no doubts that most people don't fully understand the origins of the Nazi movement and how it was perpetuated by international bankers.

quote:

Originally posted by Marc Summers Bush was in office for about 8 months, the administration managed to make an elaborate conspiracy in that time? It's physically impossible.

I disagree. 8 months is plenty of time to plan a military exercise if that is what they did. Don't forget that wolfy and rummy have been around alot longer than 8 months.

Colin Powel would have had to be involved tho, and I think he would have objected. Could be wrong.

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Originally posted by Trancer-X It's funny that you say that, considering how we're actually presenting plausible evidence to support our positions - ...Number=294039222&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=21&part=[/URL]

@"Plausible".....only in your warped mind!

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Originally posted by donnybrasco @"Plausible".....only in your warped mind!

You're boringly ignorant, donny.

I wish your dad had never bought you a computer.

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Originally posted by Trancer-X I don't think you have a point other than to be argumentative simply for argument's sake. You're obviously just talking out of your ass again, but I've gotten used to it so whatever. The level of oxygen in the atmosphere (let alone any pockets of air that could have been trapped under thousands of tons of debris) would be insufficient to produce enough heat to raise the temperature of steel to that of it's melting point (around 1510ºC). Steel is too thermally conductive and hardens as soon as it cools. Even an Oxyacetylene torch itself (which burns at around 3400 degrees Celsius) wouldn't be able to create the pools of molten steel that were found in the sub-basement levels of those towers. The thermodynamic properties of the steel beams plus the fact that they were anchored to the bedrock (almost 90 feet below the earth's surface) would only further increase their convective properties. That's the reason why so many people think that Thermite could have been used to take the buildings down.

So talking about 'thermite' as a foreign source isn't talking out of one's ass????

For the record:

quote:

Thermite A thermite reaction (a type of aluminothermic reaction) is one in which aluminium metal is oxidized by the oxide of another metal, most commonly iron oxide. The name thermite is also used to refer to a mixture of two such chemicals. The products are aluminium oxide, free elemental iron, and a great deal of heat. Iron oxide is the most commonly used oxide because it is inexpensive, and molten iron is useful for welding.

>>Source<<

Based on what a thermite reaction is and the conditions, I would believe a thermite reaction based on the materials already at the site way before suggesting some scheme of somehow physically bringing that amount of material just to create some illusion of a conspiracy...

Now that's talking about of one's ass...

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r So talking about 'thermite' as a foreign source isn't talking out of one's ass???? For the record: >>Source<< Based on what a thermite reaction is and the conditions, I would believe a thermite reaction based on the materials already at the site way before suggesting some scheme of somehow physically bringing that amount of material just to create some illusion of a conspiracy... Now that's talking about of one's ass...

I'm still trying to figure out what you are even saying here. Are you saying that a thermite reaction could have naturally occurred about 80 stories below where the fires were actually buring?

You don't think that if someone were planning to take down those buildings they wouldn't bother to use demolition or military grade Thermite? How about Cordite? Whatever it could have been, I doubt that they used the commercial blend.

quote:

THERMITE COMPOSITION - COMMERCIAL BLEND High quality thermic composition specially blended to produce molten slag alloys and extreme heat in excess of 4500º F to weld metals together or cut through it like a cutting torch. The military used thermite to destroy equipment, documents and other incendiary uses as well as remote welding. Normally difficult to ignite, it can be easily ignited using thermic prime composition, thermic igniters or a small amount of potassium perchlorate and/or magnesium powder. Easily cuts through 1/8" sheet metal in seconds - heavier metals slightly longer depending on thickness. Virtually dozens of uses for camping and survival in any weather or climate. Comes with instructions. SECTHERM - $7.95/LB - $36.25/5 LBS - $62.00/10 LBS (FLAMMABLE SOLID) http://www.firefox-fx.com/specialfx.htm

NY Fire Department Chief of Safety stated there were "bombs" and "secondary devices", which caused the explosions in the buildings

quote:

Originally posted by skot_e Colin Powel would have had to be involved tho, and I think he would have objected. Could be wrong.

THAT IS WHY HE LEFT!

lol, A conspiracy!

I'll start believing in these conspiracies when those JFK documents leave the vaults in about 20 years, and reveal something spectacular.

Back and to the left, back and to the left! lmao, hilarious entertainment.

We also didn't go to the moon! CONSPIRACY! omg CAPRICORN ONE! hahaha

Your more serious posts:

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r Why is it everyone forgets the building (not just the plane) probably did more damage to itself in acting as a fuel source for the fire to burn? In my eyes the plane was just the catalyst to the whole structural problem. It was like adding a lit match stick to a cord of dry firewood. So while the question raised about the jet fuel and the melting point of steel may be valid, it certainly doesn't take into account all the factors as to why the steel melted.

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r There's no way the jet fuel could have done that by itself.

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r I just thought the fact that it did actually fall was far more important than the reason why....

Then you see comments like this from:

quote:

Originally posted by donnybrasco Anyone would claim 9-11 was a big conspiracy is the same kind of person who would claim that the Holocoust never happened. This has thread nothing to do with real debate of genuine issues; You guys are kidding yourselves. I feel sorry for you that your lives have been wasted like this.

donny:
Now you're equating people on this thread as Holocaust deniers? That's too bad because I thought you had the potential to actually make valid points and arguments. But instead you chose to go down fighting with a weak attack by smearing the memories of peoples' lives with childish rants attacking this thread by equating it as anti-Holocaust.

Stick to the thread topic. If you want to deny the Holocaust then start your own racist thread.

But keep posting here. It's like arguing you're not gay in a gay bar.

quote:

Originally posted by Trancer-X You're boringly ignorant, donny. I wish your dad had never bought you a computer.

+1

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by Trancer-X I'm still trying to figure out what you are even saying here. Are you saying that a thermite reaction could have naturally occurred about 80 stories below where the fires were actually buring?

Yes. It's definately plausable.
All the materials needed were already existing according to the definition of a thermitic reaction.
By the time they could even come close to finding anything 80 stories below, the thermitic 'blob' (for lack of a better word) had obviously eaten it's way down that far.
Remember, we're talking about a molten mass that had a lot of time to drill down.

quote:

...Newspapers and TV newscasts reported that the twin towers had been designed to withstand a collision with a Boeing 707. The events of September 11th show that this was indeed the case. "However, the World Trade Center was never designed for the massive explosions nor the intense jet fuel fires that came next—a key design omission," stated Eduardo Kausel, another M.I.T. professor of civil and environmental engineering and panel member. So the engineers who designed it to withstand a 707 collision forgot that jets carry fuel? The towers collapsed only after the kerosene fuel fire compromised the integrity of their structural tubes: One WTC lasted for 105 minutes, whereas Two WTC remained standing for 47 minutes. "It was designed for the type of fire you'd expect in an office building—paper, desks, drapes," McNamara said. The aviation fuel fires that broke out burned at a much hotter temperature than the typical contents of an office. "At about 800 degrees Fahrenheit structural steel starts to lose its strength; at 1,500 degrees F, all bets are off as steel members become significantly weakened," he explained. This misleads the reader into thinking that 800ºF to 1500ºF temperatures were reached and sustained, for which there is no evidence. Since jet fuel boils easily and has a low flash point, it would have burned off quickly in the first few minutes after the crashes -- a point granted even by the government's official reports. Some have raised questions about the degree of fire protection available to guard the structural steel. According to press reports, the original asbestos cementitious fireproofing applied to the steel framework of the north tower and the lower 30 stories of the south were removed after the 1993 terrorist truck bombing. Others have pointed out the possibility that the aviation fuel fires burned sufficiently hot to melt and ignite the airliners' aluminum airframe structures. Aluminum, a pyrophoric metal, could have added to the conflagrations. Hot molten aluminum, suggests one well-informed correspondent, could have seeped down into the floor systems, doing significant damage. "Aluminum melts into burning 'goblet puddles' that would pool around depressions, [such as] beam joints, service openings in the floor, stair wells and so forth...The goblets are white hot, burning at an estimated 1800 degrees Celsius. At this temperature, the water of hydration in the concrete is vaporized and consumed by the aluminum. This evolves hydrogen gas that burns. Aluminum burning in concrete produces a calcium oxide/silicate slag covered by a white aluminum oxide ash, all of which serve to insulate and contain the aluminum puddle. This keeps the metal hot and burning. If you look at pictures of Iraqi aircraft destroyed in their concrete shelters [during the Persian Gulf war], you will notice a deep imprint of the burned aircraft on the concrete floor...

>>Source<<

quote:

You don't think that if someone were planning to take down those buildings they wouldn't bother to use demolition or military grade Thermite? How about Cordite? Whatever it could have been, I doubt that they used the commercial blend.

Let's say for a second that Thermite was used.
It's not out of the realm of possibility of course (we are talking about terrorists after all) but the real question then is HOW did they land up getting that much onsite without being detected??
I'm assuming of course that quite a bit would have to be used to be effective it would have had to been at least at the level of the plane's impact, therefore it would have to be on the plane...
Do we see where this is going and what's being suggested?

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

quote:

Originally posted by Trancer-X NY Fire Department Chief of Safety stated there were "bombs" and "secondary devices", which caused the explosions in the buildings

Right, this was all over the news, I remember! There's no way something like that would escape being a headline story...you and your "sources" again.

It's interesting to see and watch how the mind of a conspiracy theorist justifies and accepts certain "facts", while ignorring base logic....a real study in the power of the human mind to convince itself of anything it wants to.

For that Trancer, you serve a purpose...a near meaningless purpose, but a purpose none-the-less.