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Originally posted by Underscored Is it possible to volunteer as an aid worker?

sure, go see oen of the main aid firms, like oxfam & be really insistent.

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Originally posted by Underscored Truely a horrible thing to happen to so many people. I should add though that damages couldn't possibly be approaching the 100+ million dollars in aid they are getting. I know it sounds bad cause it is. EDIT I stand corrected it seems that the damages could cost Haiti well over 700 Million. What a devestation. Is it possible to volunteer as an aid worker?

You're both a moron and a douche. And not in the funny, lovable way. The douche way.

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Originally posted by R!CH homo erectus which existed 2 million years ago behaved in the same manner. maybe they were religious too, but religious in their context probably meant superstitious about natural phenomena such as the sunrise and sunset. i highly doubt that if they were religious, that meant they had a morality that was explicitly mandated by a god.

I don't think I ever argued that their religion was the source of their morality, or that any religion was. I was simply pointing out that they had a religion. You have made a rather large assumption that their religion did not contain a moral code; certainly, I would never argue that it did but we cannot rule it out.

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so my point stands. to say that religion gave us morality is to say that people are naturally savage creatures with no intrinsic moral compass.

No one argued that religion gave us morality, you're redirecting. What you stated was that the Neanderthals were a) our ancestors, b) had no religion, and c) lived in alturistic groups. My contention is that: a) Neanderthals are not our ancestors, b) they had religion, and c) cooperative living of Neanderthals (and neolithic humans) was a survival strategy, not alturism.

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Originally posted by RickyM you're just a shit version of Moral Hazard. At least he knows what he's talking about.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN lol, i love it when moral feels the need to lay the smack down

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Originally posted by Cpt.Cocaine The point still stands though because altruism predates culture, and even the genus homo. And yes, you could call it an instinct, but I don't see the problem with that.

If you don't see a problem with that then you've confused your terms. Living in cooperative groups is a survival mechanism... each member enters and remains in the group because of the advantages they receive from membership (at base: the increased chance of surviving long enough to pass on their genes). Alturism is concern for the welfare of others without benefit to one's self... since living in cooperative groups offers tangable benefits to the individual members one cannot call that alturism. I'm not for one second stating that alturism does not pre-date any of the religions commonly practiced today, I'm not arguing that religion is the source of alturism; in truth, I don't really think that alturism exists as absolutely nothing is entirely selfless... all I'm arguing is that living in cooperative groups is a survival mechanism, not alturism.

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Originally posted by RickyM you're just a shit version of Moral Hazard. At least he knows what he's talking about.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN lol, i love it when moral feels the need to lay the smack down

i stopped debating most religious topics in most threads coz i was sick of having moral's cock buried up to my colon.

^ but if feels so good, no?

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Originally posted by RickyM you're just a shit version of Moral Hazard. At least he knows what he's talking about.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN lol, i love it when moral feels the need to lay the smack down

you could try and be a little more gentle once in a while.

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard If you don't see a problem with that then you've confused your terms. Living in cooperative groups is a survival mechanism... each member enters and remains in the group because of the advantages they receive from membership (at base: the increased chance of surviving long enough to pass on their genes). Alturism is concern for the welfare of others without benefit to one's self... since living in cooperative groups offers tangable benefits to the individual members one cannot call that alturism. I'm not for one second stating that alturism does not pre-date any of the religions commonly practiced today, I'm not arguing that religion is the source of alturism; in truth, I don't really think that alturism exists as absolutely nothing is entirely selfless... all I'm arguing is that living in cooperative groups is a survival mechanism, not alturism.

I'm not just talking about cooperative groups. I'm talking about how a monkey will significantly slim down it's chances of survival by calling out incoming predators just so it can save it's kin. It works by reducing the odds of the individual being able to pass on it's genes, but simultaneously increasing the odds that other genetically similar individuals who have the same genes as the individual will pass on theirs. Hence, it is a survival instinct, just one that works on a social level. I'm not sure I understand why you're trying to create a distinction between group living being instinctive and altruism not being so.

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Originally posted by Cpt.Cocaine I'm not sure I understand why you're trying to create a distinction between group living being instinctive and altruism not being so.

The distinction I'm trying to make is that living in cooperative groups has benefits for the individual (mostly in terms of survival), the practice of living in cooperative groups is undertaken to derive these benefits; subsequently, there is nothing alturistic about cooperative living. I would further argue that most seemingly alturistic acts are actually just the cost of maintaining the social contract between individuals living in the cooperative group. That monkey isn't drawing the predator to himself and away from the group just because he wants what's best for the group; rather, he's protecting his blood-line, his legacy, and taking a risk that could result in elevated status, mating opportunities, and continued membership in the group should he survive the encounter. As long as there is benefit to the individual doing the act then it is not alturism, it's motivated self-interest... in the case of cooperative living the motivation is survival.

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Originally posted by RickyM you're just a shit version of Moral Hazard. At least he knows what he's talking about.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN lol, i love it when moral feels the need to lay the smack down

wtf is going on in this thread

enough of this pseudo intellectualism.

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