quote:

Originally posted by Cpt.Cocaine Sure - but even then, medication is a great supplement to whatever other form of therapy you combine it with, and, aside from the fact that medical approaches to psychology tend to be stigmatized for arbitrary cultural reasons, it would be foolish to dismiss either method. Either way, it's a pretty big jump from your position of 'pathology has complex causes'

I'm not sure how you misunderstood my post, as that's pretty much exactly what I was saying. I said people cannot rely on medication ALONE. I never said medication wasn't a legitimate and beneficial treatment. I have always supported the use of medication to help treat mental illnesses, and have always shown my distaste for the stigmatization of prescription drug users.

quote:

Originally posted by Cpt.Cocaine Childhood trauma may be a cause in some cases of addiction, which, as you so eloquently put earlier, has very complex causation models - hence the naivete of attributing so much importance onto one single arbitrarily chosen cause. It's crap because it oversimplifies a complex problem that should be dealt with on multiple levels of explanation. That's ultimately what all pop psychology is guilty of, hence why it's all crap.

I get that. Again, not sure why you think I was saying anything otherwise.

quote:

Originally posted by jennypie I get that. Again, not sure why you think I was saying anything otherwise.

I'm not sure why you think I was saying that you were saying otherwise. I'm just disagreeing with the OP, while agreeing with you, who was apparently agreeing with the OP which I was disagreeing with.

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Lol, well fuck me. Just not getting it today. I blame being hungover.

quote:

Originally posted by jennypie Except not everybody has the same access to choice and control. You really think a homeless guy can just get up and walk into the job bank and get work? What address is he supposed to fill out on the forms? How would he even know that these places exist? What if he's schizophrenic? You think people are going to treat him the same as everyone else? Why do you think he would turn to drugs an alcohol?

I still don't think it would be beneficial for an addict or a mentally ill person to be pointing fingers at other people. Especially an addict... placing the blame elsewhere would arguably give them reason to continue doing what they're doing.

The mentally ill are a special case. They don't necessarily have the capacities to take control over their own lives and get or accept the help that they need. This in my opinion, then becomes the responsibility of those related to the individual.

The homeless still have opportunities available to them. Assuming they are not mentally ill, they do have the capacities to seek help, and I would argue that most, if not all, homeless people are aware of at least some resources meant to help them (probably shelters or foodbanks), which can thus lead them to the other resources they need. Most shelters will allow to use their address for employment purposes, and many places offer free clothes, a place to get cleaned up etc.

Unfortunately however, it seems that a majority of homeless people are conflicted with addiction and mental illnesses, which complicates the entire situation further.

When it comes to addiction and mental illnesses, the solutions aren't so clear. Despite this, I don't think it is beneficial for anyone to be placing the blame for their situation on someone else. I personally don't think this is a healthy thing to do, but maybe I am wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by Cpt.Cocaine

Agreed.

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Originally posted by Cpt.Cocaine ... because, you know what lies deeply within people? Neurons.

And what lies within neurons?

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For the most part, Theresa, you don't know what you're talking about. If you'd like more information about what it's like for the homeless and addicted...I have plenty of resources I can share that will help you understand.

quote:

Originally posted by PivotTechno And what lies within neurons?

Trauma?

quote:

Originally posted by jennypie For the most part, Theresa, you don't know what you're talking about. If you'd like more information about what it's like for the homeless and addicted...I have plenty of resources I can share that will help you understand.

What in particular are you taking issue with?

quote:

Originally posted by PivotTechno And what lies within neurons?

The entire combined worth of Mackler's teachings?

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Water, Fire, Earth, Wind, Heart???
These forces are supposed to combine to create Captain Planet?
Bullshit.
Those forces combine to create a soaking, boiling mudstorm on Valentine's Day.

No, seriously, what lies within neurons?

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Your misunderstanding of "personal choice" and "free will". You're dead wrong, and clearly do not understand how, as I said before, socio-environmental-political forces act upon these kind of people.

Assuming the homeless are not mentally ill? Over 70% of homeless people have a mental illness, for one. Do you think these people all have supportive families, networks of friends, MONEY, etc to even begin to know how or where to get help? It's really not as easy as you think. You think medication is free?

Do you have any idea what it's like in a shelter? Overcrowded, full of illness, BUGS, drug users, abuse. Did you know that tuberculosis is making a comeback specifically because of conditions in shelters?

Do you have any idea how depressing and humiliating it is for these people? They didn't just wake up one day and decide to join the pity party. Did you know that the number one reason that people end up homeless in Canada is due to lack of affordable housing? Is that a personal responsibility, when there aren't even jobs that pay someone enough to afford a place to live? Do you really think ANYone WANTS to live on the street??

If you really want to educate yourself, contact Cathy Crowe or do some research on the work she does. She's a street nurse who works with the homeless in Toronto.

But she's a psych major, reads lots of books and whatnot. That means that she knows things, because as you very well know, book knowledge = real life experience.

This math brought to you by whatever it is that lies within my neurons.

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