I seriously doubt Armin woke up one day and said to himself, "You know what? I think I'm going to ruin trance."

The music he associates himself with is stuff that he likes. Sure, when he's doing a mix set for an audience, he should try to please the audience. But when he's producing in his studio, I'm pretty sure he's making the kind of songs he wants to make, not what people want him to make.

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Originally posted by brucelee6783 I seriously doubt Armin woke up one day and said to himself, "You know what? I think I'm going to ruin trance." The music he associates himself with is stuff that he likes. Sure, when he's doing a mix set for an audience, he should try to please the audience. But when he's producing in his studio, I'm pretty sure he's making the kind of songs he wants to make, not what people want him to make.

this i think is a little delusional until the thought gets sharpened slightly:

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Originally posted by Trance-MB But blaming him for what happened is just stupid. It's more like looking for someone to blame and Armin is an obvious choice.

This makes a lot of sense. It seems like Armin just popped up as a historical figure to take the place. There's a weird drive towards the shittification of music in any genre and it seems general, with specific people coming into to fill up the general picture. We can't give Armin so much credit that his choices alone (of Deadmau5&whatever else) made the scene turn to so much shit. He's just not that important.

It can't be laziness either, because even on these forums i read of one producer spending 12 hours a day making his music -- which is devotion, dedication, passion, all that important stuff. But the end result was a track that still had the same feel as all the other stuff coming out of Armada et al.

the best explanation i could think of, very sketchy at best, is that at the beginning of trance, until around 98, there was a general sketchiness even in defining trance. it had a sound, but no formula. you had to experiment around until you found 'it'. after around 98, it became understood, and the formula took over for the producers. like, if you have ever produced, or even attempted to, starting is ridiculously difficult. what the fuck are you supposed to do? what direction are you supposed to take? the potential seems limitless and for that reason its suffocating. even making small decisions on what kick sound to use takes alot of energy.

having a formula - even a very very basic one like a 4-4 beat helps you. it became too understood what trance really "is". everyone knows that trance is the music with the truly great breakdowns, hypnotic synthlines, along with everything else. what finally got emphasized was these discrete pieces of the track that, once put together in the right order, made a trance track -- instead of this experimental knob-twiddling and tweaking to somehow get at the same result, but roundabout.

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Originally posted by pozz this i think is a little delusional until the thought gets sharpened slightly: This makes a lot of sense. It seems like Armin just popped up as a historical figure to take the place. There's a weird drive towards the shittification of music in any genre and it seems general, with specific people coming into to fill up the general picture. We can't give Armin so much credit that his choices alone (of Deadmau5&whatever else) made the scene turn to so much shit. He's just not that important. It can't be laziness either, because even on these forums i read of one producer spending 12 hours a day making his music -- which is devotion, dedication, passion, all that important stuff. But the end result was a track that still had the same feel as all the other stuff coming out of Armada et al. the best explanation i could think of, very sketchy at best, is that at the beginning of trance, until around 98, there was a general sketchiness even in defining trance. it had a sound, but no formula. you had to experiment around until you found 'it'. after around 98, it became understood, and the formula took over for the producers. like, if you have ever produced, or even attempted to, starting is ridiculously difficult. what the fuck are you supposed to do? what direction are you supposed to take? the potential seems limitless and for that reason its suffocating. even making small decisions on what kick sound to use takes alot of energy. having a formula - even a very very basic one like a 4-4 beat helps you. it became too understood what trance really "is". everyone knows that trance is the music with the truly great breakdowns, hypnotic synthlines, along with everything else. what finally got emphasized was these discrete pieces of the track that, once put together in the right order, made a trance track -- instead of this experimental knob-twiddling and tweaking to somehow get at the same result, but roundabout.

I agree with your post, and I think many trance producers follow the same formula, which could be the very reason trance is becoming so...predictable.

Btw, what specifically did you think was delusional about my post?

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Originally posted by pozz this i think is a little delusional until the thought gets sharpened slightly: This makes a lot of sense. It seems like Armin just popped up as a historical figure to take the place. There's a weird drive towards the shittification of music in any genre and it seems general, with specific people coming into to fill up the general picture. We can't give Armin so much credit that his choices alone (of Deadmau5&whatever else) made the scene turn to so much shit. He's just not that important. It can't be laziness either, because even on these forums i read of one producer spending 12 hours a day making his music -- which is devotion, dedication, passion, all that important stuff. But the end result was a track that still had the same feel as all the other stuff coming out of Armada et al. the best explanation i could think of, very sketchy at best, is that at the beginning of trance, until around 98, there was a general sketchiness even in defining trance. it had a sound, but no formula. you had to experiment around until you found 'it'. after around 98, it became understood, and the formula took over for the producers. like, if you have ever produced, or even attempted to, starting is ridiculously difficult. what the fuck are you supposed to do? what direction are you supposed to take? the potential seems limitless and for that reason its suffocating. even making small decisions on what kick sound to use takes alot of energy. having a formula - even a very very basic one like a 4-4 beat helps you. it became too understood what trance really "is". everyone knows that trance is the music with the truly great breakdowns, hypnotic synthlines, along with everything else. what finally got emphasized was these discrete pieces of the track that, once put together in the right order, made a trance track -- instead of this experimental knob-twiddling and tweaking to somehow get at the same result, but roundabout.

Amen. This guy knows WTF he is talking about.

Now that you mention it, Trance really does seem washed up and recycled.
It is like the Korean Dramas, that get reused over and over (almost all endings end with a car crash, accident, cancer, sickness to the protagonist)

Almost all the stuff I hear nowadays in the new Trance scene seems generic, like they follow a certain code and regulation... And once those are met, the "ideal of a Trance song" had been met.

Hmmm, I think What many artists nowadays are trying to do is either just make generic songs with improved technology.

I can tell there are some artists who are trying to change it or mix it up a bit too bit they can't.

Artists nowadays should expand their ideas on how to surprise and captivate the listeners, not make the money.

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Originally posted by Voci Trance-Addict.com killed trance.

Trance is ALIVE!!!

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Originally posted by brucelee6783 I agree with your post, and I think many trance producers follow the same formula, which could be the very reason trance is becoming so...predictable. Btw, what specifically did you think was delusional about my post?

i didn't mean to be so harsh, but ill quote again:

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Originally posted by brucelee6783 I seriously doubt Armin woke up one day and said to himself, "You know what? I think I'm going to ruin trance." The music he associates himself with is stuff that he likes. Sure, when he's doing a mix set for an audience, he should try to please the audience. But when he's producing in his studio, I'm pretty sure he's making the kind of songs he wants to make, not what people want him to make.

i wanted to show in my post above that this is probably true - armin probably does make what he wants in his studio, probably truly interested. but -- and this is the weird part -- the music he comes out with is so close to everything else that you cant even differentiate anymore, especially these days. you can be "true to yourself" and still make the same shit everyone else is making.

i think if you are a trance producer today you have to break with your own feelings. for real. there has to be some exploration outside of what you know and are comfortable with. search around and try to make trance out of non-trance material. all my mixes feature no trance tracks, but i try to make that feeling come up again.

even if you take something like a bassline, and think about how it is used in house, dubstep, garage, techno, jungle etc etc theres alot of room for variation. there gotta be some fucking around with them knobs. ye Dj Pluvoise said this right: a willingness to be broke.

Yeah, definitely agreed with you. It wouldn't hurt some of these producers to try new things.