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Originally posted by nefardec yes... that's why all the tracks on there are both experimental, and acid house. thanks.

Oh dear, oh dear... Just because the acid tracks are experimental, doesn't mean all the experimental tracks must be acid. As with the Box Of Dub example, all the dubstep tracks are "future dub", but not every track on there is dubstep. That was the point of the example.

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My point doesn't at all rely on that cover, but it is worth bringing it up, since the express purpose of that record was in fact to define the genre.

O rly?

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...this album ⎯ which focuses on experimental house records, many of them rarities, many of them released between 1985 and 1988 ⎯ opens up an opportunity to retell the story of Chicago house that gives belated emphasis to the music's progressive roots.

Anyway, as entertaining as this is, I'm going to have to cut it short for now. I'm going out to a disco night.

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> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

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i sold a bunch of really bad uk garage and 2 step records and said it was dubstep once because i wanted to get rid of them quick

The reason why this discussion will never be fruitful is the fact that two kids are arguing over a movement which was in heat almost 25 years ago, before some of them were even born. So the disconnection is more than obvious, no matter how much literature about given subject they've digested.

Now, if 10 people that were actually there at the time posted here and revealed the TRUTH, I'd be convinced, though I'm not sure I'd be hard-pressed to care a bit more. Again, genre names are not empirically determined and it's super silly to argue so much about something scientifically unverifiable. It's as stupid as arguing about religion.

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Anyway, as entertaining as this is, I'm going to have to cut it short for now. I'm going out to a disco night.

oh no he didn't!

this is the one step away from 'if you'll excuse me i'm going to go fuck my supermodel girlfriend, internet losers'

oh boy.


btw the cajmere track was made with a dx-7, no 303.

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Originally posted by sljiva Again, genre names are not empirically determined and it's super silly to argue so much about something scientifically unverifiable. It's as stupid as arguing about religion.

that's why i suggested we just accept both as truth. no reason the word 'acid' can't be used to refer to:

1.) the sound of a 303 tweaking
2.) any synthesizer/drum machine/sampler manipulated in a similar way
3.) a constellation of house records mostly originating from a dance culture in chicago which signaled a distinct break from disco oriented tracks to alien-sounding, aggressive, percussive, rhythmic tracks that relied on repetitive, variously articulated mechanical manipulation and modulation of early synthesizers, drum machines, and samplers, central to which was (1).

pink floyd invented acid in 1972?

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thats prolly a juno or a moog. i also think thats whats used in smack my bitch up and not a 303. not sure about that though. the name prodigy came from somewhere and it was not a 303 lol.

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Originally posted by clay thats prolly a juno or a moog.

no..

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Originally posted by nefardec oh no he didn't! this is the one step away from 'if you'll excuse me i'm going to go fuck my supermodel girlfriend, internet losers' oh boy. btw the cajmere track was made with a dx-7, no 303.

Bahaha, you retard. You've been arguing with SYSTEM-J for the better part of a decade and you genuinely think he'd back out of another one? And with a shitty excuse like that?

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Mix archive | Melbourne club guide

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Originally posted by Domesticated Bahaha, you retard. You've been arguing with SYSTEM-J for the better part of a decade and you genuinely think he'd back out of another one? And with a shitty excuse like that?

well.. no. but what's with the 'screw you guys im going to the disco' message? why doesn't he just tell us what he's eaten while he's at it?

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You've been arguing with SYSTEM-J for the better part of a decade

damn, that's sad.

*looks wistfully at bygone life*

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Originally posted by sljiva The reason why this discussion will never be fruitful is the fact that two kids are arguing over a movement which was in heat almost 25 years ago, before some of them were even born. So the disconnection is more than obvious, no matter how much literature about given subject they've digested. Now, if 10 people that were actually there at the time posted here and revealed the TRUTH, I'd be convinced, though I'm not sure I'd be hard-pressed to care a bit more. Again, genre names are not empirically determined and it's super silly to argue so much about something scientifically unverifiable. It's as stupid as arguing about religion.

The discussion is deteriorating, but I do have to say even if someone was around from the day those records were made, it still doesn't prove that they are qualified to speak on the subject. The same can be said for the many articles like the UK journalist. Just because someone is writing an article doesn't even mean his data is correct. The reality is, much of what we refer to are just opinions on stuff that wasn't taken so seriously at the time. You are totally correct, and it is a silly waste. Acid House is just House that got re-branded. Acid House is not a genre in my opinion, it's just a sub-genre or re-labelling of House. House has been re-branded time and time again...as DJs and magazines need to continually re-invent themselves...INCLUDING the word Trance.

>second-wave Chicago house, at the point where the scene cut loose >from its disco origins. The cover clearly states "1985-1995", and we >all agree that acid house didn't exist in 1985.

I agree on what you refer to here as the 2nd wave, and this 2nd wave you speak of is the Acid House movement. It was the next generation of partiers. According to you though if the 303 was Acid, and it was placed in a House record, 'Acid House' did in fact exist in 1985. The Z-Factor record by Jesse Saunders that I refer to has those sounds in it, and it was released in 1984-1985. Lastly, I'm pretty sure the Sleezy D (Marshall Jefferson) record may have been played in 1985. A lot of the early Trax records were pressed later than when the music was played on reel-to-reel etc.. Does anyone have the Green Sleezy D? Or the Green Jungle Wonz? or the White vinyl Ron Hardy Sensation? The photo of the Fresh Dum Dum record (By Jessse Saunders) for example was released in 1984-1985 on a ghetto looking label called PRECISION RECORDS. This came from Larry Shermans record plant where all those crackily records were being pressed...including Trax which he owns.

Records were described as Acid House that didn't sound like those terrible (in my opinion) Acid Trax records. Mr. Fingers Can U Feel It is a perfect example. A huge record at the time that was definitely a defining sound of the Acid House movement. I wasn't there in 1985-1986, but I did start collecting in 1987. Even in 1987 the scene was still considered primitive and small. I was too young to attend the events but I was collecting it from my cousins. It wasn't until the later 1980's that the Acid House movement started growing large. You started seeing those T-shirts with the happy face that said Acid House, and people started wearing these silk dress shirts with poka dots, Pants were baggy...to the point of stupidly baggy. This could be where that early candy raver style came from - the acid house style.

Nobody mentions DJ International too. A HUGE label with many records that had the Acid sounds in it (yes I agree that you can call that sound acid...but the instrument in of itself is not very important...the word was more to describe a Future Generation), but ALL these records are technically just House music. The word Acid House is dumb in my opinion to use it as a sub-genre of House. It's just House.