Psychedelic themes can definitely be about exploring the boundaries of what's possible and the future generally. In the case of psytrance I haven't heard any tracks with quotes that talk about the past at all (with the exception of maybe aliens planting their dna in us, which is a sci fi thing anyway). At least not past 100 years ago so I'm not sure the chronology bit really applies. Also I can't really agree with your statement about sci fi being a lot closer to nature than psychedelic themes are. If you think of it from the perspective of the quote "When technology becomes sufficiently advanced it becomes like magic" then perhaps what the music is attempting to convey is a future so far advanced or a reality so different to what we currently understand* that it feels very abstract and alien by our standards.

There's definitely some psy out there that conveys that mood a lot better than my mix. Still though, I feel as though the mood of my mix was at least partially involving thoughts of the future, technology and it's possibilities. Most tracks have an overall spacey mood with in particular "party droid" conjuring images of a high energy fun but weird dancing droid (maybe that'll be the role of r2d2 in episode 7), as well as "science fiction" being presumably more about the enjoyment of science fiction rather than a particular sci fi concept. "Pulsar Glitch", "Solar", "Deep Space 5D" and "Taygeta" are also all about space or space themes. Obviously while space itself isn't technically sci fi, it seems like the tracks are more about the exploration and habitation of space and not so much about the pure physical aspects. I wish I had a bit more insight to give, but that's my thoughts on the subject.

*We could after all be in a matrix, or there might be very different civilizations and physics just outside the known universe

On a side note, that does make me think of an interesting idea for a theme of a mix. Conveying the emotion that you'd feel in a bizarre and hard to understand but consistent future/alien society. The first thing that comes to mind is extremely abrasive head through a straw darkpsy though. Which probably won't be your kind've thing

The next mix I make will almost certainly be prog or full on however. Unfortunately almost all the sets that are played out (especially at shorter/club events) are of those styles so I need to practice and get good if I want to get any gigs, which I'm definitely aspiring to do.

[edit] Also it's worth pointing out there's different levels of psychedelic experience. Not every time is a hyperspace infinite universe death trip. There's certainly thinking for 10 hours straight "wouldn't it be cool if in the future we could... or alternatively, society should be x way for x reason" which are both sci fi themes.

___________________
Check out my Goa mix and Darkpsy Mixes here

Last edited by Psyshell on Jan-23-2014 at 16:06

quote:

Originally posted by Psyshell Psychedelic themes can definitely be about exploring the boundaries of what's possible and the future generally. In the case of psytrance I haven't heard any tracks with quotes that talk about the past at all (with the exception of maybe aliens planting their dna in us, which is a sci fi thing anyway). At least not past 100 years ago so I'm not sure the chronology bit really applies. Also I can't really agree with your statement about sci fi being a lot closer to nature than psychedelic themes are. If you think of it from the perspective of the quote "When technology becomes sufficiently advanced it becomes like magic" then perhaps what the music is attempting to convey is a future so far advanced or a reality so different to what we currently understand* that it feels very abstract and alien by our standards. There's definitely some psy out there that conveys that mood a lot better than my mix. Still though, I feel as though the mood of my mix was at least partially involving thoughts of the future, technology and it's possibilities. Most tracks have an overall spacey mood with in particular "party droid" conjuring images of a high energy fun but weird dancing droid (maybe that'll be the role of r2d2 in episode 7), as well as "science fiction" being presumably more about the enjoyment of science fiction rather than a particular sci fi concept. "Pulsar Glitch", "Solar", "Deep Space 5D" and "Taygeta" are also all about space or space themes. Obviously while space itself isn't technically sci fi, it seems like the tracks are more about the exploration and habitation of space and not so much about the pure physical aspects. I wish I had a bit more insight to give, but that's my thoughts on the subject. *We could after all be in a matrix, or there might be very different civilizations and physics just outside the known universe On a side note, that does make me think of an interesting idea for a theme of a mix. Conveying the emotion that you'd feel in a bizarre and hard to understand but consistent future/alien society. The first thing that comes to mind is extremely abrasive head through a straw darkpsy though. Which probably won't be your kind've thing The next mix I make will almost certainly be prog or full on however. Unfortunately almost all the sets that are played out (especially at shorter/club events) are of those styles so I need to practice and get good if I want to get any gigs, which I'm definitely aspiring to do. [edit] Also it's worth pointing out there's different levels of psychedelic experience. Not every time is a hyperspace infinite universe death trip. There's certainly thinking for 10 hours straight "wouldn't it be cool if in the future we could... or alternatively, society should be x way for x reason" which are both sci fi themes.

The last one is an interesting note, hadn't really thought of it that way. When I'm on psychedelics my thoughts tend to center around the now and the past, the ego and the immediate surroundings, how i fit in there and how I've come to be that way. But never the distant future. Obviously it's always going to be a very personal experience and judging by the chosen track titles in your mix it may as well be a very different experience that these guys are trying to portray.

With the chronology bit I'm alluding to the nature of psychedelic experiences and how they play with your perception of time. How the flow of it gets interrupted and past, present and future events can blend together. Psytrance uses this effect heavily.

___________________
Mixes: Ala� (Conceptional ambient dub)
AOTSE (Experimental)

Listens:
http://www.last.fm/user/bierheld

quote:

What i think psytrance and psychedelic-focussed music in general is is a tie-in to the the unexplored boundaries of the human mind itself. Science fiction is by nature a fantasy grounded in reality, which is why the issue is often side-stepped by setting the narrative in the future rather then the past as is common in regular fantasy. It is based on what we don't know, and the past is something we have a rather good idea about. A psychedelic narrative meanwhile is not bound by chronology at all and explores the relation between the human mind and the cosmos, the observable reality versus timeless interconnected infinity. It is as such something that's far removed from reality by nature, it describes the process of leaving it altogether. Besides that a psychedelic depiction of "space" is nothing like a scientific one.

Well, if I may get academic and geeky on this subject, sci-fi is less fantasy grounded in reality than it is fantasy grounded in logic. Neither genre actually takes place in our own universe but alternate realities identified by what are called �points of departure� from reality � recognisable aspects of the setting which do not or cannot exist in our reality, whether it�s dragons and orcs or aliens and light speed. It�s perfectly possible for science fiction to be based in the past (take the �ancient aliens� narratives or Harry Harrison�s �West Of Eden�), or for fantasy to be set in the future (the post-apocalyptic steampunk of Michael Moorcock�s �Hawkmoon� novels, for example). Chronology is less important than the discourse that surrounds the points of departure.

In any case, psychedelic trance has always collided sci-fi imagery with mystical Eastern shtick. You only have to look at the artist and track titles in Psyshell�s tracklist to see that. Aliens and alien abductions seem to be a particularly fond metaphor for being wrenched out of reality and taken on a mind-bending trip. I would agree that using sci-fi as a pretext to just mix an old-school goa set isn�t particularly imaginative and the mix title and artwork are pretty tenuously linked to the theme, but as I noted he�s at least selected predominantly spacey cuts rather than tracks full of psychonaut evangelist blather or Perfecto Fluoro riffs.

___________________
Mixes:
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24
> Surface Tension [Progressive Trance]
> Back To Deep [Deep Trippy House]
> Terra Nova [Modern Progressive Trance]

If you enjoy any of these sets and want to hear me live, I'll be playing a 2 hour progressive trance set at Basing House in Shoreditch, London on 11th October.
I'm also a resident at our bi-monthly party Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Well, if I may get academic and geeky on this subject, sci-fi is less fantasy grounded in reality than it is fantasy grounded in logic. Neither genre actually takes place in our own universe but alternate realities identified by what are called �points of departure� from reality � recognisable aspects of the setting which do not or cannot exist in our reality, whether it�s dragons and orcs or aliens and light speed. It�s perfectly possible for science fiction to be based in the past (take the �ancient aliens� narratives or Harry Harrison�s �West Of Eden�), or for fantasy to be set in the future (the post-apocalyptic steampunk of Michael Moorcock�s �Hawkmoon� novels, for example). Chronology is less important than the discourse that surrounds the points of departure.

I don't dispute that. The myths and folklore fantasy likes to base itself around are generally things we know don't exist, whereas sci-fi tropes like aliens and (apparent) faster than light travel are still popular subjects of debate in scientific circles, which i think is the main difference.
Alternate realities are basically a given within fiction of this kind, but I'm guessing people that are into sci-fi are there because they like the plausibility of it, as the movement is mainly based on imagination sparked by scientific discoveries.
Chronology helps in that regard because it's a lot harder to believe something that's supposed to have happened already especially if humans are involved, but it's definitely possible to work around the issue.

quote:

In any case, psychedelic trance has always collided sci-fi imagery with mystical Eastern shtick. You only have to look at the artist and track titles in Psyshell�s tracklist to see that. Aliens and alien abductions seem to be a particularly fond metaphor for being wrenched out of reality and taken on a mind-bending trip. I would agree that using sci-fi as a pretext to just mix an old-school goa set isn�t particularly imaginative and the mix title and artwork are pretty tenuously linked to the theme, but as I noted he�s at least selected predominantly spacey cuts rather than tracks full of psychonaut evangelist blather or Perfecto Fluoro riffs.

I don't blame him for picking this kind of music at all, but obviously the perception of it is tied to the listener who can have a very different interpretation then the artist who made the song in the first place.
I'm just trying to get to the bottom of this by asking people if they can rationalize the connection.

___________________
Mixes: Ala� (Conceptional ambient dub)
AOTSE (Experimental)

Listens:
http://www.last.fm/user/bierheld

Last edited by Bierheld on Jan-23-2014 at 22:05

quote:

Originally posted by Bierheld Chronology helps in that regard because it's a lot harder to believe something that's supposed to have happened already especially if humans are involved, but it's definitely possible to work around the issue.

I don't wish to bog the thread down in this discussion but your point seems fairly tenuous to me. Yes, SF generally takes place in the future rather than the past, because the future is a more plausible setting for the hyper-advanced technology that facilitates imaginative "points of departure", but that isn't particularly relevant to chronology. You're talking about psychedelics influencing perceptions of time, which in fiction would be more an issue of narrative arrangement and the use of techniques like prolepsis and analepsis than the actual setting. There are plenty of sci-fi books/films/comics/etc. with non-linear narratives, with drug use, unreliable narrators, time-travel and other aspects that would allow the storyteller to fuck with perceptions of time or reality. An excellent example would be Ian M Banks' brilliant novel "Use Of Weapons" where alternate chapters move forward and backward in time, so one story thread moves towards a climax in the future and the other moves backwards to a revelation in the past, the two moments arriving at exactly the same point in the story to deliver one of the biggest head-fucks I've ever read. That story is set in the distant future and predominantly in outer space.

I agree to some extent that psy-fi is self-contradictory, but only because science fiction is generally distinguished by its logical treatment of fantastical aspects, whereas hallucinogens radically warp the subject's capacity for clear logic and causality.

___________________
Mixes:
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24
> Surface Tension [Progressive Trance]
> Back To Deep [Deep Trippy House]
> Terra Nova [Modern Progressive Trance]

If you enjoy any of these sets and want to hear me live, I'll be playing a 2 hour progressive trance set at Basing House in Shoreditch, London on 11th October.
I'm also a resident at our bi-monthly party Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

Last edited by SYSTEM-J on Jan-23-2014 at 18:46

I have limited BW @ home (4GLTE) and have been out sick the past few days, I am downloading both mixes now and will report back in a few days with how terrible they are (JK! )

Sad to see people dropping out so early!



e: VVV no worries guys, I know! Just a joke (I guess I could have worded it better) I'm sure they're both going to be great and I'll do my best to touch on the good and bad

Last edited by jonmitz on Jan-24-2014 at 00:55

quote:

Originally posted by jonmitz I have limited BW @ home (4GLTE) and have been out sick the past few days, I am downloading both mixes now and will report back in a few days with how terrible they are (JK! )

Just to be clear, I don't think your mix is terrible by any means. The second half nails the concept and the first half is interesting and unusual. The two parts just don't really make sense together for me.

___________________
Mixes:
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24
> Surface Tension [Progressive Trance]
> Back To Deep [Deep Trippy House]
> Terra Nova [Modern Progressive Trance]

If you enjoy any of these sets and want to hear me live, I'll be playing a 2 hour progressive trance set at Basing House in Shoreditch, London on 11th October.
I'm also a resident at our bi-monthly party Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

Neither do I for that matter. I'm very adamant in arguing these things and I often tend to lose focus on the big picture and important nuances, I'm just get a little sore when I see a lot of potential that I feel gets wasted or handled poorly. As much as I don't agree with the way the first half is laid out I will say that it was ambitious, provocative and contained some very good music and mixing. I don't regret having to listen to it and I will gladly do so again at some point, I'm no stranger when it comes to masochism anyway

___________________
Mixes: Ala� (Conceptional ambient dub)
AOTSE (Experimental)

Listens:
http://www.last.fm/user/bierheld

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I would agree that using sci-fi as a pretext to just mix an old-school goa set isn�t particularly imaginative and the mix title and artwork are pretty tenuously linked to the theme, but as I noted he�s at least selected predominantly spacey cuts rather than tracks full of psychonaut evangelist blather or Perfecto Fluoro riffs.

No doubt about that. The theme's influence on the mix is more of a seed of where to begin and a light to moderate influence overall. Also, there's no artwork that's supposed to go with this mix, there's only the one for my other mix and my avatar on soundcloud. You must be thinking of one of them.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I agree to some extent that psy-fi is self-contradictory,

Just because it's psy trance doesn't mean it's got a hallucinatory theme. People write music about things that inspire them, they definitely could've had the idea for a track while thinking about a sci fi movie or the technological possibilities of the future. While almost every track has a very "hallucinatory" aesthetic (with abstract sounds, lots of reverb etc) that's more to do with general trends in the music and people basing how their music sounds on what other tracks sound like rather than a deliberate theme for each individual track. I don't really agree that sci fi has to be firmly logical either. There's varying degrees, obviously it's going to be more realistic than cutesy big eared goblins fantasy but a book or movie that's a bit weird and unrealistic and whose main focus is exploring a somewhat dystopian future is still sci fi. Something like a scannar darkly perhaps.

___________________
Check out my Goa mix and Darkpsy Mixes here

Last edited by Psyshell on Jan-24-2014 at 00:29

The last time I attempted to make a mix of psychedelic drum & bass, it was a little all over the place. While there were a few great tracks, the mix had next to no flow, and the variety was far too much to be considered a legitimate representation of such a rare style. The theme of science fiction allowed me to mix neurofunk into this set, and the spacey sounds fit perfectly with what I was trying to do.

Lots of energy and interesting music here. Enjoy!

Cybernetika - Devoid of Gravity [Ektoplazm]
Lumin Essence - Phobos [Genome]
Cybernetika - Hayashis Journey [Ektoplazm]
Xenofish - Sanctus [Ektoplazm]
Xenofish - Arashi [Ektoplazm]
Axi - Mayan Temple [Mindtech]
Dementia & Dephas8 - Surrounded [Mindtech]
Black Sun Empire - Don't You (State of Mind Remix) [Blackout]
Myselor - Reality [Full Force]
Optiv & BTK - Tapout [Dispatch]
Black Sun Empire - Fever (Chris.SU Remix) [Blackout]
Unknown Artist - Still Alive (VIP Mix) [Fokuz]



Download:
Ziptnf - Encrypted Universe (1:07:47) 156MB ~320kbps

Image credit to nellieanger.

___________________

Set Archive | TA DJ Challenge

That looks fucking heavy, Zip. I already know the intro is going to be massive. I can see now why you were a little worried I�d be treading on your toes, but it�s worked out well in the end. It's almost like my mix is the atmospheric cult classic and yours is the SFX-heavy blockbuster sequel.

quote:

There's varying degrees, obviously it's going to be more realistic than cutesy big eared goblins fantasy but a book or movie that's a bit weird and unrealistic and whose main focus is exploring a somewhat dystopian future is still sci fi. Something like a scannar darkly perhaps.

Philip K Dick is a perfect example of what I mentioned before � his stories are full of unreliable narrators in the grip of paranoia, drug use or mental instability, but there�s a subtle difference between realistic and logical. There's some tripped out SF or badly-constructed illogical gibberish (see: Prometheus) but the idea of SF is it still goes "if A then B", it's just A is for Aliens.

___________________
Mixes:
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24
> Surface Tension [Progressive Trance]
> Back To Deep [Deep Trippy House]
> Terra Nova [Modern Progressive Trance]

If you enjoy any of these sets and want to hear me live, I'll be playing a 2 hour progressive trance set at Basing House in Shoreditch, London on 11th October.
I'm also a resident at our bi-monthly party Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J It's almost like my mix is the atmospheric cult classic and yours is the SFX-heavy blockbuster sequel.

So... Robocop 1987 and Robocop 2014?

___________________

Set Archive | TA DJ Challenge