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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On EXACTLY. EXACTLY.

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J My God.

We now return you to your regular scheduled reality, however it may manifest.

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obama did it, duh

For the non-Americans who missed it.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN

Why would the US feel the need to hide the fact they took down Flight 93 in your opinion?

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Originally posted by Desiderata Why would the US feel the need to hide the fact they took down Flight 93 in your opinion?

His logic extends to this:

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The story of it being taken by passengers was bearable, migs taking it down was not.

Presumably meaning that for the families of the survivors, being told a lie about how the passengers had died heroically was more comforting than hearing an air force jet blew their loved ones up in mid-air. In the grand scheme of the 9/11 brain-wrong, this is downright plausible. It still, however, feels like a big stretch to cover up all the people involved on the air force side and the crash investigation side, with nobody ever coming forward, especially when the evidence is pretty sketchy.

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J His logic extends to this: Presumably meaning that for the families of the survivors, being told a lie about how the passengers had died heroically was more comforting than hearing an air force jet blew their loved ones up in mid-air. In the grand scheme of the 9/11 brain-wrong, this is downright plausible. It still, however, feels like a big stretch to cover up all the people involved on the air force side and the crash investigation side, with nobody ever coming forward, especially when the evidence is pretty sketchy.

I feel given the circumstances of that day that the families of the people in Flight 93 would have no choice but except government involvement given the circumstances of that day. Plus they would love to broadcast that they had to shoot down one plane, they would be dying to say that.

Didn't happen...

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Well versed in the subtle art of slavery.

the fact that i was once a backstreet boy has been largely ignored so i do understand that feeling. You feel paranoid almost like perhaps it is all in your head but you know what AJAY' penis feels like in your hand so it can't be not true

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN there is absolutely no evidence to support the let it happen on purpose (LIHOP) nonsense. none.

Says fucking who? Stop being so naive. 19 terrorists, several of which were already on no-fly or watch lists, plan at least 18 months to carry out multiple hijackings, and on the day, only one of 19 get stopped from boarding? and they carry out all attacks unhindered?

Oh, I see more mass, co-incidental ineptitude. I don't care if you don't like it or there's not a released and readily available document proving it right now, but history is on my side; there have been countless events that government officials (from the president down) often colluding en masse, have later admitted to happening. Just watch The Most Dangerous Man in America about the pentagon papers. You'll see the lengths people will go to in an effort to protect a grand lie.

I'm not saying people helped them. I'm saying there at lease certain people out there who knew what was going to happen and turned a blind eye. It's the dumber argument to think there wasn't. I bet you think there's not other life in our universe than us, just because you haven't shaken ET by the hand.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN uh huh. 3) The cockpit voice recorder recorded the hijackers' attack and apparent murder of the pilots and a flight attendant. Air traffic controllers heard a radio transmission by a man with an Arabic accent, warning of a bomb on board. Passengers reported that one of the hijackers had what appeared to be a bomb strapped to him. 4) After learning about the other attacks, passengers and cabin crew attempted to retake the cockpit but were apparently unable to gain entry. The sound of their attempts was recorded on the CVR. The CVR also recorded the hijackers' decision to end the flight, followed by repeated shouts of "Allahu Akbar!" ("God is greatest.") until the plane crashed. Families of victims heard the CVR recording.

And you've heard the cockpit recording have you? You've verified it and authenticated it and made sure there's no edits etc?

So let's get this right: They already knew there were multiple attacks and knew this last plane had been hijacked. They'd scrambled jets to intercept the earlier planes but they got there too late. Then they knew the pilot was dead and the hijackers had a bomb. So if passengers knew about the other attacks by now, the government somehow hadn't caught on yet and were just sitting there waiting for something to happen? Where does this info like " the sound of their attempts were recorded on the CVR" come from? The families of the victims? the press release from the presidential office? the FAA? Because they haven't released the tapes. And what does that sound like? I'm sure when a plane is being hijacked you hear all sorts of shit and if you've ever heard a real CVR it's fucking difficult to hear anything clearly that is not spoken in to the cockpit mic. And I'm a pro engineer and still can't make head nor tail of what's meant ot be going on.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN As one of its last acts before disbanding, in July 2004, the 9/11 commission made referrals to the inspector general's offices of both the Department of Transportation (which includes the F.A.A.) and the Defense Department to further investigate whether witnesses had lied. "Commission staff believes that there is significant evidence that the false statements made to the commission were deliberately false," Farmer wrote to me in an e-mail summarizing the commission's referral. "The false testimony served a purpose: to obscure mistakes on the part of the F.A.A. and the military, and to overstate the readiness of the military to intercept and, if necessary, shoot down UAL 93."

What a fucking second. So them admitting that a decision had been made to shoot it down, and that they had capability and jets in the air, was all just a huge and well co-ordinated lie FROM DONALD RUMSFELD DOWN, just to cover up the fact they we're ready? Listen to yourself. You can't have that cake you just ate. They're either lying or they're not. I say they lied about not shooting it down, and you say no they said they shot it down, but actually they didn't and it was all a conspiracy of lies to cover up the fact they didn't?

This is getting like the last season of the x-files. One guy contracting an entire commission does not make me feel any more or less confident either way but right, because Vanity Fair, did an article many years after the fact it's the gospel.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN what inconsistencies exactly? all i see is a comment about another plane being in the vague vicinity of the crash? really? vanity fair's article and the 911 report are far more convincing than alleged, supposed, imagined, aircraft that may or may not have been in the area.

Read my earlier posts again and check the sources. They not edited by commercial entities as in VF.

At least 5 different but all consistent, time of incident witness reports about planes being in the sky. A direct quote from Rumsfeld saying it had been authorized (in fact he even had that famous slip of the tongue in a press conference "shooting down the plane" in the days that followed... I could go on but I think there's at least enough things to make you wonder if something else happened here.

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Originally posted by SYS-J Presumably meaning that for the families of the survivors, being told a lie about how the passengers had died heroically was more comforting than hearing an air force jet blew their loved ones up in mid-air. In the grand scheme of the 9/11 brain-wrong, this is downright plausible. It still, however, feels like a big stretch to cover up all the people involved on the air force side and the crash investigation side, with nobody ever coming forward, especially when the evidence is pretty sketchy.

And that is what i'm saying; it's quite plausible and by no means proven. But to go further, it's not primarily for the families - I lived on the east coast at that time and the US had never had anything close like this happen. It was shaken to it's core. America couldn't then take the news it own government shot down a plane as well and a heroic cover story would make a tiny silver lining to hold on to.

Again, I have no proof and it may even be a stretch but it's certainly plausible.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN Says fucking who?

i do. if you have information contrary to this, by all means name some names.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN Stop being so naive. 19 terrorists, several of which were already on no-fly or watch lists, plan at least 18 months to carry out multiple hijackings, and on the day, only one of 19 get stopped from boarding? and they carry out all attacks unhindered?

incredulity noted.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN Oh, I see more mass, co-incidental ineptitude. I don't care if you don't like it or there's not a released and readily available document proving it right now, but history is on my side; there have been countless events that government officials (from the president down) often colluding en masse, have later admitted to happening. Just watch The Most Dangerous Man in America about the pentagon papers. You'll see the lengths people will go to in an effort to protect a grand lie.

sure, well when history proves you right, feel free to bump this thread. as it stands however, i doubt you could find any previous coverup that is similar to the breadth and scope required for 911.

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I bet you think there's not other life in our universe than us, just because you haven't shaken ET by the hand.

and i bet you think this life has handed on earth because that sounds just like what the government would cover up

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Originally posted by DJ RANN And you've heard the cockpit recording have you? You've verified it and authenticated it and made sure there's no edits etc?

ugh. i didnt see any footage of the plane crashing into the pentagon either however i do know that many and varied investigators have examined said tapes, as well as 93's families. why must *I* then go and listen to them myself? why am i a better judge of authenticity of these recordings?

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Originally posted by DJ RANN So let's get this right: They already knew there were multiple attacks and knew this last plane had been hijacked. They'd scrambled jets to intercept the earlier planes but they got there too late. Then they knew the pilot was dead and the hijackers had a bomb. So if passengers knew about the other attacks by now, the government somehow hadn't caught on yet and were just sitting there waiting for something to happen? Where does this info like " the sound of their attempts were recorded on the CVR" come from? The families of the victims? the press release from the presidential office? the FAA? Because they haven't released the tapes. And what does that sound like? I'm sure when a plane is being hijacked you hear all sorts of shit and if you've ever heard a real CVR it's fucking difficult to hear anything clearly that is not spoken in to the cockpit mic. And I'm a pro engineer and still can't make head nor tail of what's meant ot be going on.

https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/flight93page1

have fun. no single piece of evidence is necessarily the holy grail, but taken together is fairly compelling. note the multiple eye-witnesses to a low-flying plane that crashed, and no reports of fighters shooting it down. take note of things like the FDR data showing the plane was intact before impact, there's a transcript of the CVR from the moussaoui trial, and the flight paths which corroborate eye witness testimony.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN What a fucking second. So them admitting that a decision had been made to shoot it down, and that they had capability and jets in the air, was all just a huge and well co-ordinated lie FROM DONALD RUMSFELD DOWN, just to cover up the fact they we're ready? Listen to yourself. You can't have that cake you just ate. They're either lying or they're not. I say they lied about not shooting it down, and you say no they said they shot it down, but actually they didn't and it was all a conspiracy of lies to cover up the fact they didn't?

no, what i provided was just a snippet of a rather lengthy discussion on the topic, which involved plenty of government lies to coverup the incompetence, yet also included quotes from individuals on the front lines advising 93 wasn't shot down. governments aren't monolithic entities and just because there's a bureaucracy the fudges things because they had their pants pulled down, does not automatically make everyone in the government a liar. it's up to YOU to determine whether that article is compelling or not. i thought it was, and combined with the other details of the crash i don't find YOUR opinion compelling at all. it's all inductive suspicions which aren't enough for me.

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This is getting like the last season of the x-files. One guy contracting an entire commission does not make me feel any more or less confident either way but right, because Vanity Fair, did an article many years after the fact it's the gospel.

as above. i didn't say it was "gospel". it is however better than anything you've said. incredulity + your own suspicions.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN Read my earlier posts again and check the sources. They not edited by commercial entities as in VF.

i read your earlier posts. i didn't see what inconsistencies they were referring to. and that's not even pointing out that inconsistencies in these situations are to be expected.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN At least 5 different but all consistent, time of incident witness reports about planes being in the sky. A direct quote from Rumsfeld saying it had been authorized (in fact he even had that famous slip of the tongue in a press conference "shooting down the plane" in the days that followed... I could go on but I think there's at least enough things to make you wonder if something else happened here.

i just think it's funny how much importance you give rumsfeld above and beyond all the other pieces of evidence.

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Last edited by pkcRAISTLIN on Feb-09-2014 at 06:56