My late grandfather, who was a bomber pilot during WWII and a devout christian, told me once that he "had never prayed so much that there was a god, yet (he) was never so certain that there wasn't."

and what do you think about that?

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Originally posted by zarathustra My late grandfather, who was a bomber pilot during WWII and a devout christian, told me once that he "had never prayed so much that there was a god, yet (he) was never so certain that there wasn't."

wow, that is a great quote...sounds like The 7th Seal...excellent movie.

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dying for ones religion- sure... but killing? most religions denounce violence especially in defense of religion. But, there are also many smaller sects of religious traditions that house violent views, but for the most part, violence only occurs with lay followers that simply call themselves "hindu" or "christian" and do not actually study or practice the faith.. so in my opinion, because religions denounce violence, it is the un-caring and ignorant lay persons fault for causing the violence, not the faith itself.

well...hmm

i understand what you mean. but all the issues/warfare resulting from empiricism and whatnot around the globe, which was distinctly influenced by religion, dont count?

the world has been shaped by religion and its 'influence' on people. surely this is largely a Christian issue, but it extends beyond that. Kashmir is in question, and while it may not be purely for religion, that is a large part of the puzzle|

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Originally posted by trancedfarmer and what do you think about that?

I found it interesting how a man could question his very faith under that type of stress. Made me think about those who claim to be championing "god's will" to justify fighting a war. Are they themseles also questioning what they believe in? Do they really think that they are acting out the will of god? I don't know.

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Originally posted by biznology wow, that is a great quote...sounds like The 7th Seal...excellent movie. well...hmm i understand what you mean. but all the issues/warfare resulting from empiricism and whatnot around the globe, which was distinctly influenced by religion, dont count? the world has been shaped by religion and its 'influence' on people. surely this is largely a Christian issue, but it extends beyond that. Kashmir is in question, and while it may not be purely for religion, that is a large part of the puzzle|

i understand what your saying too.. i guess i always try to defend religion because i believe it is useful in making life better.

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Originally posted by zarathustra I found it interesting how a man could question his very faith under that type of stress. Made me think about those who claim to be championing "god's will" to justify fighting a war. Are they themseles also questioning what they believe in? Do they really think that they are acting out the will of god? I don't know.

yes. i have always thought to myself that if one believes in God or even wants to but questions the existence of God when certain events happen, then they didnt know the essence of God in the first place.

Religion is the gun, not the bullet.

Renegade, I think you should try to be more concise in your posts. Do you know what 'demagoguery' means?

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Originally posted by Arbiter Religion is the gun, not the bullet.

Possibly the most to-the-point statement in this thread.

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quote:

Originally posted by Arbiter Religion is the gun, not the bullet.

great statement!!

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Originally posted by biznology I like that you brought up the 'Western' part. It helps coming from a non-USer too! The thing is, other western nations act like they are entirely separate from the US, when we are all completely linked, and so called 'western' nations are more alike that dissimilar. As far as how good of a job we do is completely up to interpretation. I just get uneasy when other Western Nations accuse the US of being completely separate from their existence, when in most cases they rely on the US in some way - and YES, we rely on them too|

The US has to do all the dirty work, and then the europeans play the role of the bitchy housewife who complains about it afterwards. This is about the security of the western world, not just the US.

Iraq is an enemy of the US, we will decide what to do with Iraq in the US, our way, whether Europe wakes up from their deep slumber to discover Iraq is their enemy too is another matter.

As far as I'm concerned their is sufficient evidence that the entire Arab League is conspiring against us, we should be working on alternative energy at a pitch fever pace to cut off flow of money to the Arab states via oil.

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