[sarcasm] The average troll knows more than the trained professional. They use very informative anonymous sites to state their claims with. Always making objective statements and useful rhetoric. [/sarcasm]

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Originally posted by ogvh5150 Loose Change Creators Receive 4 Page Spread in This Month's Vanity Fair (.pdf file)

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^^ nothing like appealing to the ignorant populace of america as some kind of evidence to sinister activity! these are the same people that voted bush in twice!!

the only people claiming to know better than the trained professionals are the conspiracy theorists who ignore all the fire fighters, demolition experts, rescue crews, investigators from across the world, structural engineers, NIST employees. oh the list goes on and on.

ogv's comment is hypocritical in the extreme. ha.

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^^ nothing like appealing to the ignorant populace of america as some kind of evidence to sinister activity! these are the same people that voted bush in twice!!

Anyone can vote on internet polls, it is not just limited to Americans.

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the only people claiming to know better than the trained professionals are the conspiracy theorists who ignore all the fire fighters, demolition experts, rescue crews, investigators from across the world, structural engineers, NIST employees. oh the list goes on and on.

The only people claiming to know better are trolls who have not realized that these fire fighters, demolition experts, rescue workers, etc. are the ones coming out reporting that 9/11 was an inside job.

Seriously your posts become more and more dumbed down, act of desperation?

can you doods just chill? the majority of posts on this board are just personal attacks. stop being retards and start objectively discussing the issue.

pkc, how can you call people sheep and ignorant and THEN say that all firefighters, military, demolition experts support the real story when there are many who don't? (http://www.patriotsquestion911.com)

if you're gonna act like a smartass knowitall get your facts right, and when people raise questions why don't you answer them fully?

the main issue is that there are many aspects that are hidden from the public. blackboxes? objective independent FULL investigation? testimony thats been stricken from the record?

let's say you're right, America had NO part in 9/11, why the missing facts? if America truly is the victim here, why hide anything at all? wouldn't they rather disclose everything? hiding facts only makes people curious, it's human nature.

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this is it.

Last edited by Haunted on Mar-14-2007 at 23:28

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Originally posted by culorut Anyone can vote on internet polls, it is not just limited to Americans.

even if you could substantiate that the poll isnt an american-majority vote, its still irrelevant. what popular opinion means in something like this is completely irrelevant.

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Originally posted by culorut The only people claiming to know better are trolls who have not realized that these fire fighters, demolition experts, rescue workers, etc. are the ones coming out reporting that 9/11 was an inside job. Seriously your posts become more and more dumbed down, act of desperation?

theyre only "dumbed down" for people like yourself that havent, for a second, researched other hypotheses or explanations for what occured on the day. the fact you keep repeating known fallacies and poor assumptions (comparing the collapses to steel-framed buildings instead of the WTC "tube in a tube" design is a classic one you love to repeat) as "evidence" just shows your remarkable inability to understand relevant information easily obtainable if you bothered to look.

also, i have yet to see proper quotes by fire fighters or demolition experts that havent been DELIBERATELY taken out of context to further the agenda of the poor researchers that created the movement. ive seen numerous examples of cherry-picked quotes, which as any academic would know, is intellectually dishonest

.quotes out of context by CT liars

hey, what do these demolition experts (who currently hold world records for several demolition projects) and were also involved somewhat in the 9/11 clean up think?

analysis of WTC controlled demolition by world experts

i have yet to see any expert in demolitions state they think there were explosives set in any of the buildings. but i am ready to read anything you might have.

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Originally posted by Haunted can you doods just chill? the majority of posts on this board are just personal attacks. stop being retards and start objectively discussing the issue. pkc, how can you call people sheep and ignorant and THEN say that all firefighters, military, demolition experts support the real story when there are many who don't? (http://www.patriotsquestion911.com)

i am not interested in the political machinations that have occured due to 9/11. the fact that the government of the day might try and hide glaring problems in their management or security etc is of no concern to me when regarding the question of whether the government planted explosives in the buildings. complicity by the bush administration isnt what im concerned with. so, if you have any testimony from structural engineers or fire fighters or demolitions experts that state they believe there were said explosives, then i am ready to read them.

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Originally posted by Haunted if you're gonna act like a smartass knowitall get your facts right, and when people raise questions why don't you answer them fully?

firstly, you obviously havent read this entire thread if youre asking me that question. i have done my damndest to provide plenty of answers. the problem being that nobody ever bothers with them. secondly, what a lot of these people dont even realise is that theyre asking stupid stupid questions that nobody of sound intellect even entertains. my example of comparing WTC buildings (apples) to steel-framed mesh buildings (oranges) is a case in point. people like culorut dont even realise their arguments dont actually make any sense. i am tired of dealing with the same fallacies ive been dealing with for a very long time now.

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Originally posted by Haunted the main issue is that there are many aspects that are hidden from the public. blackboxes? objective independent FULL investigation? testimony thats been stricken from the record?

well that kind of evidence (or lack of evidence) can point to many different things. i would like you to qualify why you dont think the NIST investigation was independent? considering the cross-section of american experts that were included in that report. not saying its perfect, just that to label it as less than independent shows a fundamental lack of understanding of how government departments function. blackboxes? i am unsure of what you mean. were boxes found?

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Originally posted by Haunted let's say you're right, America had NO part in 9/11, why the missing facts? if America truly is the victim here, why hide anything at all? wouldn't they rather disclose everything? hiding facts only makes people curious, it's human nature.

missing facts does not equal sinister motives for starters. i prefer to limit the discussion to things like how/why the buildings came down. what evidence, if any, there is to support the accusation of bombs in the buildings, planted by the government. lets also remember that missing facts are part and parcel of chaotic environments like 9/11, it would be highly unusual if we could piece absolutely everything together into one neat package. indeed, i would probably find that more suspicious. the nature of government can lend itself to a keen sense of incompetence, and most of the so-called missing parts in the narrative can more-easily be attributed to useless government mis-management than some underlying cunning plan.

time and time again i have asked the CTers to explain to me what type of explosives were used in the demolition, or how exactly secret demo teams were able to get access to core supporting columns without being noticed, given that a demo exercise of this magnitude would take months of work. ABSOLUTELY FUNDAMENTAL questions like this are totally ignored by the CTers, and without plausible explanations the CT movement fails at the most basic of levels. into every question "sinister government plot" is injected, yet they almost always fail to answer the larger questions that these injections cause.

this is why i no longer take the movement or its rubbish theories seriously. people like culorut like to paste stuff from their fight the power websites without critically analysing the data within (yes, i have been guilty of this, but only with technical science that i do not understand). not too long ago he (i think) posted in here regarding missiles on the pentagon. ANY amount of research would have shown that there werent any missile batteries of any kind on top of the pentagon on 9/11. its bad research like this that just annoys the absolute fuck out of me and im tired of providing proper responses most of the time because they are not attended to properly. it gets quite tiring. it annoys me when people post things of almost no relevance to the topic at all, like culurot's recent BBC argument- that because the BBC reported the collapse of WTC7 before it happened its some kind of evidence of something other than a media mistake (gee, first time in history that would have happened!!). im not sure if people like him just have a lot to learn from going to school and evaluation evidence or argument, but its just ridiculous to argue commen sense to someone that sees cloaks and daggers around every turn.

i am more than happy to be convinced otherwise re 9/11, but nobody yet has provided any substantial evidence to support their outlandish claims. the 9/11 CTers are akin to the "intelligent design" advocates in the states, thinking that poking at supposed holes in evolution thus means that evolution isnt true. when the simple fact remains that the "official" story has withstood far more credible and scientific examinations than any CT theory has to date. im not saying there arent anomalies, indeed i would expect them, but the arrogance shown by these "internet super-sleuths", thinking they can assess the data better than HUNDREDS of structural engineer or demolitions experts just seems a bit ridiculous to me, sitting behind their keyboards.

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Your so full of shit it isn't even funny. First you state the majority of Americans are ignorant because they voted Bush into office then state popular opinion means nothing.

This popular opinion voted in the decision on who was to become president for the last two terms, not very important my ass. If you cannot see the importance of popular opinion (which heavily favors 9/11 being a cover-up presently) your mind will never see past anything else.

You have been given tons of facts and relative links, the rest you will have to do for yourself. I tend to believe there are many that cannot be helped no matter what the cost and you are one of the prime examples.

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Originally posted by culorut Your so full of shit it isn't even funny. First you state the majority of Americans are ignorant because they voted Bush into office then state popular opinion means nothing.

seriously, explaining things to you is fucking painful you halfwit. its why id be a terrible teacher. spelling things out for the less intellectually capable isnt my strong suit.

first off i stated that the people that voted in the CNN poll were (arguably) the same that voted bush into office. meaning theyre probably not very bright. continuing...

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Originally posted by culorut This popular opinion voted in the decision on who was to become president for the last two terms, not very important my ass. If you cannot see the importance of popular opinion (which heavily favors 9/11 being a cover-up presently) your mind will never see past anything else.

no, what i said was whatever the popular opinion is regarding 9/11 is absolutely and completely IRRELEVANT. youre repeating a logical fallacy ad populum.

go here if youre too dumb to know what that means

i never said voting was irrelevant you absolute cretin. tell me why you seem to think the opinion of the under educated masses are a topic of importance in this discussion. dont be an idiot.

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Originally posted by culorut You have been given tons of facts and relative links, the rest you will have to do for yourself. I tend to believe there are many that cannot be helped no matter what the cost and you are one of the prime examples.

no, no i havent. i have seen a bunch of bullshit masquerading as research. and ive seen a bunch of gullible teenagers lap it up coz they dont know any better. ive read most of these crazy bullshit sites that you have (probably well before you too, and with greater understanding) and i have never come across any quotes from demo or structural experts that argue there were bombs in the towers.

but, if you wish to prove (yet again) that the 911 CT movement is full of shit, hide behind your "tons of facts" without actually providing me with what i asked for. its quite a common tactic by your ilk, i remain unsurprised.

i pity your college professors (should you ever get that far) having to deal with your ill-conceived and fallacious arguments

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I was correct you cannot be helped.

Something is making you burn up inside (relevant from your obnoxious posts) and its most definitely because you are being told the truth.

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Originally posted by Haunted can you doods just chill? the majority of posts on this board are just personal attacks. stop being retards and start objectively discussing the issue.

If you can read through the whole thread never is there any objective reasoning or rhetoric coming from a few trolls. It's the going back and forth with them that swells the thread and gives it credence when those trolls could choose to ignore the thread.

But they don't. Don't get me started on any policing of them. I appealed a few times to no avail. But there are others that I did have disagreements with and didn't feel bothered. It's the ones with the ad hominem and character assassinations that get away with their BS.

But let's be back on topic cause they're gonna wet their panties now that Khalid Sheik Mohamed "confessed".

If tortured some more, he would confess that he is Santa Claus or that he killed OJ Simpsons' ex-wife and friend.

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Last edited by ogvh5150 on Mar-15-2007 at 21:00

i don't doubt that the towers collapsed due to the planes, but what i doubt is the governments involvement.

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this is it.

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Originally posted by Haunted i don't doubt that the towers collapsed due to the planes, but what i doubt is the governments involvement.

well thats a completely different question if you ask me.

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