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Yoepus
Neo-condimist



Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Ketchup fields, Texas

Well Georgey, glad you posted what you posted. At least know I get a comprehensive picture of how you think about this issue, which if I can sum it up in one sentance is a European approach to an Arab problem

You are assuming one critical thing here, that Arabs/Palestinians think like you, they don't. Altough we are all human and share some core beliefs and morality, culture has a very huge impact on the way we think and feel.

quote:
Originally posted by George Smiley
From what I have seen throughout history, despite the tactics used, 9 times out of 10, the "terrorists" have had a legitimate concern that has been behind the decision to take to arms.


First of all thats your opinion, which I find quiet ammusing for this reason: If they were a "legitimate" concern, they could have addressed it with in the system. By their very nature, terrorist have "illegitimate" concerns, or they would have tried the legitimate course of action first. (Even the USA pre Iraq tried the 'legitimate' UN route, before force).

The concerns are very illegitimate, they are only legitimaized through violence, that works with people with you, I refuse to allow that to work with people like me, as I wish people to work with in the legal constructs as much as possible. In the UN thread, this seems to be your thought on it as well.

quote:
The same happens in Israel. Revenge attacks and airstrikes are common after a suicide bombing. But thats all they are, revenge. They obviously dont work or we would have seen an end to Palestinian violence a long time ago.


Well what do you want Israel to do? Let the terrorist attack and never retaliate? To give the terrorist a green light and let the kill as many Israelis as they like without fear of any consequences?

Retaliations, even if you believe they are revenge are essential. This is what all human moral ideology and laws are based upon. If a thief steals, shall we just let him continue to steal, and steal, and steal?

quote:

What actually happens is that ordinary Palestinians, terrorised by the Israelis (cos who says terrorism cannot be commited by a soveriegn government?) support attacks against the aggressors (revenge again?)


Again above comments. Of course you are morally equating justice with crime in this context. You are telling me, people are more likely to steal if they get caught, because the police make them angry when they see someone getting arrested. Even if this is true, it does not stop the fact that the police should arrest a criminal - regardless of how popular the criminal is and regardless of how mad that makes the people who know the criminal feel about the police that arrested him.

If the police arrested my brother for stealing, I'd be mad too!

quote:
I dont have any answers of how to eliminate terrorism completely Yoepus, but what I do know for a fact is that the bigger the terrorist organisation, the more dangerous it is.


And I don't have an answer on how to eliminate crime. I think terrorism, like crime will always exist. And I agree with you, tbe bigger the criminal organization, the more dangerous it is.

I just differ in you because I believe that police work, actively going after a criminal organization, breaking it up, making sure there are no mafias makes a criminal organization smaller, and that letting the crime families live untouched allows them to gorw bigger.


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Old Post Mar-24-2004 19:32  Israel
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Arbiter
Naked Power Organ



Registered: May 2002
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by George Smiley
OK, lets get this straight, I dont think appeasment should be the way to deal with evey terrorist situation, but I do think it should be in the back of our minds when dealing with them.

From what I have seen throughout history, despite the tactics used, 9 times out of 10, the "terrorists" have had a legitimate concern that has been behind the decision to take to arms.

You have to look at each separate situation and ask yourselves, "why are they doing this". But you have to do this truthfully and not become blinded by revenge or nationalism or pride. That is the hard part and I cannot recall a situation, bar Northern Ireland (which I think should be the bench mark for dealing with any kind of terrorism) where this has happened.


This line of reasoning would be valid if (and only if) "each seperate [terrorist] situation" existed in a vacuum. However, they do not.

The inevitable result of even the slightest degree of appeasement of terrorists is the further legitimization of terrorism as a means of obtaining political redress. It sends the message to every single disgruntled political figure around the world that terrorism might be an effective tool for them to employ to obtain their objectives.

This is not acceptable. While in the short-term, it might seem possible to save lives through appeasement of a single group who are resorting to terrorism, the long term consequence of any such appeasement will be more terrorism. Perhaps from the same group, perhaps from a different group. But the fact remains: appeasement will not stop (or even slow) terrorism, it will only popularize it.

We need to send a strong and united message that any political group which resorts to terrorism will not have their concerns addressed, regardless of the legitimacy of those concerns, until such a time as they cease to resort to such an illegitimate means of obtaining political redress.

quote:

Everytime I see an MP on the telly talking about al-Qaida I want to scream. Either they are fucking stupid, or they are trying to manipulate public oppinion to meet there own agenda. Everytime they are asked why al-Qaida are doing this they give the same rehersed answer, "You have to understand, that al-Qaida hate and despise the West, our values and our democratic beliefs, this is why they are attacking us" NO!!! Ok, so they hate what we stand for, but why would they want to kill us for it?

You have to go a lot further and not rely on simplicity like what I have talked about above. It was not hard to find out what al-Qaida actually stood for or wanted, and if they had that (if any terrorist had what they were attacking for in the first place) they wouldn't attack - makes sense no?


No, it doesn't make sense, because you are severely oversimplifying the nature of human behavior. Suppose you have a young child, and the child throws a tantrum if you refuse to buy him a candy bar. If you give in and buy him the candy bar, it may satisfy him - temporarily. But what do you think is going to happen next time he wants something and you refuse to give it to him?

Al-Qaeda, Hamas, and every other terrorist organization on this planet would love us to believe that all we have to do in order to stop their terrorist attacks is to comply with their immediate demands. But that's simply not realistic. If we give in to their demands, the next time something comes up that they aren't content with - and it probably won't take long - the bombing will start again, and we will have gained nothing from appeasing them the first time.

Not only that, but as I already stressed, other groups may perceive the success that those groups attained as a product of the terrorist methodology, and begin to employ similar tactics themselves.

Anyone who believes that appeasement of any terrorist organization will cause a long-term reduction in terrorist activities is suffering from a serious case of intellectual myopia.

quote:

When we let our emotions take over, we lash out. When we lash out, we make the reasons terrorists attack us much worse, and inevitabally, more people will have cause for concern and will begin to support the reasons terrorists attack, thereby making the threat to us a hell of a lot worse. We have seen this in Iraq. The Presidency became blinded by emotion after 11/9 (which most Americans by the look of it did). They wanted to lash out and they did. They got it right first time (Afghanistan) as bin Laden's operation needed to have the plug pulled on it (or at least hampered as al-Qaida are all over the world). But America was not content. It wanted more revenge. It chose Iraq...but why? Iraq had nothing whatsoever to do with al-Qaida, so attacking Iraq as part of the war on terror did not make sense rationally. But America has been acting unrationally (emotionally) since 11/9 and Iraq laughed when that happened, and for that, they paid.


I agree that we need to be calm and measured in our responses to terrorism if those responses are to be effective, targeting terrorists themselves and minimizing any harm to innocent civilians. However, I do not believe appeasement can be a valid or useful part of such a strategy.

quote:

But that has made things so much worse...look at Madrid. Attacking Iraq in no way whatsoever helped us against terrorism, and as the Spanish found out to their cost, it had exactly the opposite effect.


There is no way to know what would have happened if Spain did not assist in the war in Iraq. There is no proof that the attack would not have occurred anyway. Even if it wouldn't have, there is no evidence that the same resources, both economic and human, would not have been diverted to terrorist activity elsewhere.

quote:

The same happens in Israel. Revenge attacks and airstrikes are common after a suicide bombing. But thats all they are, revenge. They obviously dont work or we would have seen an end to Palestinian violence a long time ago. What actually happens is that ordinary Palestinians, terrorised by the Israelis (cos who says terrorism cannot be commited by a soveriegn government?) support attacks against the aggressors (revenge again?)


Israel has an inconsistent record of appropriate responses to terrorist attacks. In many cases, they cause unnecessary damage to civilians and civilian infrastructure which most likely only contributes to the terrorist threat. However, targeted attacks directed at known terrorist leaders, such as Yassin, are highly appropriate.

quote:

I dont have any answers of how to eliminate terrorism completely Yoepus, but what I do know for a fact is that the bigger the terrorist organisation, the more dangerous it is. The more support a terrorist organistation gets the bigger it becomes...and people support terrorist organisations when they become threatened by the terrorist's enemy, or when the terrorist's enemy starts acting like the bad guy, and the "terrorist" organisation becomes the saviour...

Now our behaviour is something we can control


Our behavior is certainly something we can control, and I agree tha there are significant improvements we could make toward the end of fighting terrorism. Unfortunately, I believe that the suggestion that appeasement - even in the most mundane sense - is not and can not be one such improvement.

Terrorism may never be eliminated completely. However, if we do not wish for it to further perpetuate itself, we cannot, under any circumstances, allow it to appear to be a successful ideology.

Old Post Mar-24-2004 20:00 
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George Smiley
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Jan 2004
Location: 9 Bywater Street, Chelsea, London

quote:
You are assuming one critical thing here, that Arabs/Palestinians think like you, they don't

Beliefs like that really piss me off, and it is a belief that is pressured onto us by people with ulterior motives, in the Israeli case, justifying their actions against Arabs

Hitler used the same ploy against the Jews in Nazi Germany, summat I'm sure is very close to your heart? To the Germans, the Jews were viewed as being different and not able to think and act like the rest of the population. The only way they could be dealt with was...well, you know

Its just ignorant stereotyping and it simply amounts to racism

Yes, to damn fucking right I think Arabs are just like me. I happen to know many Muslims, and have had the pleasure of meeting a great deal more, and guess what? Every last one of em WAS exactly the same as me

What makes you think that our societies and culture is any different to that of Islam? Is America not full of fundamentalist Christians? What about the settlers in the occupied terrirtories on their quest for the Greater Israel...religious fundamentalists. Whats makes them any different to al-Qaida? None of them respect any other cultures and would almost definately support the killing of anyone they deemed 'infidels' or 'kafir' or 'gentiles' if they tried to exhert an influence over the land they claimed was theirs. Fortunatley, their veiws represent a minority (despite the amount of power they may have in the governemnts of Israel or America) and that, I suspect, is exactly the same for any Islamic state

And your police/crime anology is just about as good as your 'man gets slapped' anology...ie not very

quote:
First of all thats your opinion, which I find quiet ammusing for this reason: If they were a "legitimate" concern, they could have addressed it with in the system. By their very nature, terrorist have "illegitimate" concerns, or they would have tried the legitimate course of action first. (Even the USA pre Iraq tried the 'legitimate' UN route, before force)

How could they have addressed it in their system? A legitimate concern simply means their actions could be seen as being justified. The American revolution - merely terrorism. The Irish rebellion - merely terrorism. The Palestinian rebellion - merely terrorism. But nobody can say that these three groups did not have a legitimate concern due to the fact that they are oppressed...

quote:
Retaliations, even if you believe they are revenge are essential

What an idiotic statement to make. And I assume that applies across the board? To the Palestinians who will avenge the death of the spiritual leader of Hamas?

quote:
I just differ in you because I believe that police work, actively going after a criminal organization, breaking it up, making sure there are no mafias makes a criminal organization smaller, and that letting the crime families live untouched allows them to gorw bigger

Superb! Absolutley superb! Shame we are discussing ways of reducing the risk of terrorism and what you have just said has nothing what so ever to do with it.

Do us a favour mate, next time you post, leave the silly simplistic anologies out and focus on the issues instead why dont you?

Old Post Mar-24-2004 20:03  England
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Yoepus
Neo-condimist



Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Ketchup fields, Texas

quote:
Originally posted by George Smiley
Hitler used the same ploy against the Jews in Nazi Germany, summat I'm sure is very close to your heart? To the Germans, the Jews were viewed as being different and not able to think and act like the rest of the population. The only way they could be dealt with was...well, you know


The Jews were different than the Germans. I'm not going to try and pretend they weren't. To the German population, Jews were different able able not able to think or act like the rest of the population, no they were viewed to be able to think and act better than the rest of the population.

Whatever it was, the Jews were sitll culturally different then the Germans, if that makes me agree with Hitler so be it. Its all a matter of balance. Do I think Arabs are different than Europeans? Yes. Do I think they all deserve to be slaughtered because of it? No.

Other than shockvalue, I don't know what you are trying to go for here. I'm sure you agree with many things that Hitler thought too - after all he was a socialist Its all a matter of balance and extreme.

quote:

Its just ignorant stereotyping and it simply amounts to racism


Great so stop stereotyping me as a racist. :

quote:
Yes, to damn fucking right I think Arabs are just like me. I happen to know many Muslims, and have had the pleasure of meeting a great deal more, and guess what? Every last one of em WAS exactly the same as me


I know many Muslims too, but are they '100%' Arab? Most Arabs on this forum aren't. They have had the cultural experiences of both western and middle eastern culture. Just like I share the culture of both Israel, the Jewish people, and the West.

Most Arabs do not share this cultural understanding (and yes I am generalizing here, not stereotyping) - they have lived under only one culture, a culture that is very xenophobic.

You have also lived under one culture, however it is very accepting of other ways of life. It advocates moral relativism, understanding, diplomacy, appeasement, a "Can't we all just get along", a "live and let live" mentality.

It is understandable than to believe that you can not think otherwise, or can comprehend that people can think other than you do. That all must be accepting as culturally as you are.

quote:
What makes you think that our societies and culture is any different to that of Islam?


So you think there is no difference? Look at the basic virtues that each culture prides itself upon.

Western culture is based on money, merit, liberity, freedom, and equality.

Arab culture values honor, heredity, family, conservatisim, and faith.

If the core values of a society are different, why do you believe the socieites will produce the same results? the same people that think just like you.

I would be suprised if you told me, heres a westerner, heres a Middle Easterner, I'm gonna bet $1000 they think exactly a like on a slew of issues.

quote:
And your police/crime anology is just about as good as your 'man gets slapped' anology...ie not very


Ahh you didn't like it ? Why not? I try.. I try...

quote:
The American revolution - merely terrorism.


The Americans had legit complaints (altought I admit they were a tad on the extremist side) and they tried to address them through legitimate means before they used force. The legitimate means didn't work because they fell on deaf, or rather mad ears.

quote:

What an idiotic statement to make. And I assume that applies across the board? To the Palestinians who will avenge the death of the spiritual leader of Hamas?


Well you are assuming that Hamas repersents the moral and legal authority of the Palestinian people a weight equal to the legitimacy granted to a military force of a soveriegn nation such as the IDF>

If you are willing to make that assumption, then yes, you would hav e to beleive that they are entitled to revenge.

If you believe they are criminals, a group of terrorist that don't repersent the will of the Palestinian people then reference my police/cop analogy.

You probably won't be able to understand this however, as its counter to your cultural upbrinings of moral relativisim

quote:

Do us a favour mate, next time you post, leave the silly simplistic anologies out and focus on the issues instead why dont you?


Thats the thing. This issue is not complex. It surely isn't complex to the Arabs, and the minds of the Palestinian (most of who don't have Univeristy educations and are aware of thoughts like yours). Its a very simple issue to them, they understand it with clarity. And Israel's response to this can be evaluated complexly if you like, but they are dealing with a simple conflict, and the way it deals with it can easily be interperted simply.

Go out see the world, you'll realize not everyone thinks the same as you. I'll agree most people FEEL the same way as you do, but think.. thats a whole 'nother realm.


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Old Post Mar-24-2004 20:44  Israel
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George Smiley
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Jan 2004
Location: 9 Bywater Street, Chelsea, London

quote:
To the German population, Jews were different able able not able to think or act like the rest of the population, no they were viewed to be able to think and act better than the rest of the population

Thats just incoherent mumbo jumbo!

quote:
Whatever it was, the Jews were sitll culturally different then the Germans, if that makes me agree with Hitler so be it. Its all a matter of balance. Do I think Arabs are different than Europeans? Yes

Ah thats more like it! English! Of course every culture is gonna be different, but underneath it all are gonna be the same set of emotions that control us all. Nobody wants to see others come to harm, no matter what the other person believes in. The only reason some people do is because of religious fundamentalist beliefs (or other fundamentalist beliefs such as a political ideology)

I will not accept that Muslims are any different to any other religion, whether it be fundamental religion or moderate religion. In fact, if we look through history, Christianity is the most disgusting thing I have ever read about. What they did to the Muslims and Jews in the Crusades makes me feel sick. The Muslims, altho pretty bad themselves during the Crusades, came nowhere near the Christians. So if you wanna criticise any culture for being vicious and murderous, then look no further than the Christians...

quote:
Western culture is based on money, merit, liberity, freedom, and equality.

Arab culture values honor, heredity, family, conservatisim, and faith.

The only difference between the West and the rest of the world is wealth and science. If the rest of the world were exposed to the same levels of wealth and science (and what comes out of that) then they would act exactly the same as us

Old Post Mar-24-2004 22:02  England
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smokeape
Lowland Trance Addict



Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Heart of Dixie

Woohoo! One less terrorist motherf*cker on earth!

Burn in hell Yassin!!! You parapelegic infidel!!!



[[[smoke]]]

Old Post Mar-25-2004 02:19 
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DigiNut
You kids get off my lawn!



Registered: Dec 2002
Location: Toronto, Self-proclaimed Centre of the Universe

*sigh* Georgie, I had high hopes for you when I was reading your original "tongue in cheek" comments... didn't realize how serious you were about them. Alright, let's do this thing...

quote:
Originally posted by George Smiley
Beliefs like that really piss me off, and it is a belief that is pressured onto us by people with ulterior motives, in the Israeli case, justifying their actions against Arabs

It's interesting how you're suddenly representing this as a battle between a nation (Israel) and a culture/religion (Arabs). Do you see Israel attacking Egypt? Jordan? Any of the other millions of Arabs that surround them? No, it is simply Palestine, and this does not lend much support to your theory that Israel is trying to justify anything or needs to.

Of course Israel doesn't have a perfect track record when it comes to keeping civilian casualties low, but the one distinction we can make is that those casualties are often the result of poor planning/strategy and/or collateral damage, which is a far cry from actually bombing civilian targets with no military or strategic value whatsoever.

quote:
Hitler used the same ploy against the Jews in Nazi Germany, summat I'm sure is very close to your heart? To the Germans, the Jews were viewed as being different and not able to think and act like the rest of the population. The only way they could be dealt with was...well, you know

Fallacy of Four Terms here, and I've started to notice that such syllogisms are common in your oversimplified arguments. You say, Group A was made a scapegoat by Group B, and Group C was made a scapegoat by Group D, therefore Group A is equal or analogous in some way to Group C. It is clearly not logical to equate two entities simply on the basis that they share a common property, and it's hard to ignore the glaring omissions you've made in your argument: namely, that the Nazis were committing pure genocide, not just on the Jews but also on (for example) the Poles, and not one of these victim groups ever committed any significant acts of retaliation, let alone terrorism. They simply hid or ran.

quote:
Its just ignorant stereotyping and it simply amounts to racism

One could say the same thing about your conclusion that Israel is trying to justify some sort of hate toward Arabs.

quote:
Yes, to damn fucking right I think Arabs are just like me. I happen to know many Muslims, and have had the pleasure of meeting a great deal more, and guess what? Every last one of em WAS exactly the same as me

I have many Muslim friends too. We've got a large proportion of those in my EE program and I'd say I probably have more Arab or Muslim friends than "white" (I use the term loosely) ones. They're great people, and as far as I know, they think similar to the way I do.

But I live in Canada, not Israel or Palestine, and you seem to be neglecting the effect of society on these people's minds. When you are taught in classrooms to resent and to hate and live in an atmosphere of constant oppression and fear, you get a little wacky. Why don't you read some of the books people wrote about World War II to get a perspective on how people's minds work in those situations... it's pretty crazy, both in the figurative and literal sense.

quote:
What makes you think that our societies and culture is any different to that of Islam? Is America not full of fundamentalist Christians? What about the settlers in the occupied terrirtories on their quest for the Greater Israel...religious fundamentalists. Whats makes them any different to al-Qaida? None of them respect any other cultures and would almost definately support the killing of anyone they deemed 'infidels' or 'kafir' or 'gentiles' if they tried to exhert an influence over the land they claimed was theirs. Fortunatley, their veiws represent a minority (despite the amount of power they may have in the governemnts of Israel or America) and that, I suspect, is exactly the same for any Islamic state

Islamic religion in and of itself does not necessarily lend itself to hate. But we are talking about a nationalistic and cultural issue, not a religious one. And above all else, we are not judging their religion or even their culture, but merely the actions that culture seems to be disposed to carrying out. If Fundamentalist Christians are killing people (as were some of the anti-abortionists who went around killing doctors, for example), then they should be punished. If extremist Jewish settlers are killing Palestinian civilians without provocation, then they should be punished too. And if Palestinian militants are rallying scores of men, women, and children to blow up civilian targets in an adjacent state, they should damn well be punished too.

quote:
How could they have addressed it in their system? A legitimate concern simply means their actions could be seen as being justified.

Any action can be justified if it's put into the right perspective. If you ever get the opportunity to listen to a paranoid schizophrenic (and I am talking about a literal diagnosis of this, not just a random "psycho"), you should do it, because you'll come to understand that in their minds, what they see and think makes perfect sense. It is totally logical and totally sound. And yet, we call them legally insane. So there is a precedent for saying that just because a person can justify his/her actions does not mean that they are justified in the "absolute" sense - and I am not going to submit to any theories of moral relativism and concede that whether an act is justified only depends on the morality of whoever commits it, because that school of thought is complete bullshit, pardon my French.

quote:
The American revolution - merely terrorism. The Irish rebellion - merely terrorism. The Palestinian rebellion - merely terrorism. But nobody can say that these three groups did not have a legitimate concern due to the fact that they are oppressed...

I noticed you never addressed Arbiter's post, and I think he hit the nail on the head here. The simple fact of the matter is that it doesn't matter how legitimate their concerns are or aren't - there is just no negotiating with terrorism because appeasement is encouragement, and terrorist groups absolutely must be dealt with swiftly and harshly in that regard.

The Irish rebellion and the American revolution occurred in a particularly different sequence of events from what the Palestinians call the intifada. Again, you are equating things merely on the basis that they share a common property, but leaving out many important details (and now is not the time to get into a whole history of the American revolution - I'm sure most of the Americans in this thread are intelligent enough to understand the difference between that and the current situation surrounding Palestine).

quote:
What an idiotic statement to make. And I assume that applies across the board? To the Palestinians who will avenge the death of the spiritual leader of Hamas?

Avenge the death, or don't avenge it... they will continue to do exactly the same thing as they've always done. The only difference is that now, people like you will *say* that it was because of his death and that they are avenging it, whereas many of us who are not so short-sighted will realize that this is not any significant change from what was already taking place.

quote:
Do us a favour mate, next time you post, leave the silly simplistic anologies out and focus on the issues instead why dont you?

Same to you, you seem to be a fan of syllogisms but let me assure you that they are considered to be fallacious. I'd like to see you address Arbiter's reply to you - you have yet to do that, is there a particular reason you're icing the tunnel-vision cake with sticky stubbornness?


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Old Post Mar-25-2004 08:03  Canada
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DigiNut
You kids get off my lawn!



Registered: Dec 2002
Location: Toronto, Self-proclaimed Centre of the Universe

Also, I'm trying to avoid delving too deeply into THIS can of worms...

quote:
Originally posted by George Smiley
The only difference between the West and the rest of the world is wealth and science. If the rest of the world were exposed to the same levels of wealth and science (and what comes out of that) then they would act exactly the same as us


...but really that is one of the most ignorant schools of thought out there. Other parts of the world are not ready for those levels of wealth and science - we all follow a cycle of natural development, and if we try to skip stages - just as if a child tries to "grow up too fast" - things start to go haywire. You are totally, totally confusing cause and effect; the level of wealth and science is a byproduct of the society, not a contributing factor to its development.

We should all be like the futuristic sci-fi societies like Star Trek. Remember the Prime Directive: never, ever interfere with the development of another society.


___________________
My party schedule:
2009-02-21 - DJ Attention @ I'm So Popular
2009-06-18 - DJ Annoying @ People Need To Know Where I'll Be
2012-11-32 - DJ Insufferable ɸ Or At Least the Stalkers I Complain About
2048-06-66 - Spastic & Whocares Although I'm Actually Flattered
9999-45-81 - Tweaker Gimp I Probably Won't Even Go To This But I Have To Make Sure I Fill Up All The Available Space Here

Old Post Mar-25-2004 08:07  Canada
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Sand Leaper
Tension hunter



Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Oslo, Norway

quote:
Originally posted by DigiNut
Avenge the death, or don't avenge it... they will continue to do exactly the same thing as they've always done. The only difference is that now, people like you will *say* that it was because of his death and that they are avenging it, whereas many of us who are not so short-sighted will realize that this is not any significant change from what was already taking place.


Just something I've been pondering on:

How is it that you all can be so sure that Hamas won't escalate their terrorist activities after Yassin's death? What basis do you have for drawing this conclusion? I'm just curious. A lot of the people in here do not seem to worry about Hamas taking further actions after the murder, yet I've not seen anything posted in here to strengthen the theory that the terrorist activities will remain on the same level (Feel free to provide the links to threads where you have done so earlier though). How can we be so sure about Hamas' terrorist capabilities not being greater than what we've already seen? Is it just because you assume that if they had had terrorist methods with much greater impact they would already have used it by now, or?


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Old Post Mar-25-2004 08:22  Norway
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Palestinian
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada
Evil1 CUT OFF HIS HEAD

They have opened the gates of Hell. Sharon has cut off all hope for peace between Palestinians and Israelis. When Yassin was killed, HOPE was killed along with him. The only hope left for me is that they cut Sharon's head off.


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Theodore Herzl, founder of the World Zionist Organization: "Spirit the penniless population across the frontier by denying it employment... Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly."

Last edited by Palestinian on Mar-25-2004 at 13:33

Old Post Mar-25-2004 12:39  Palestine
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trancaholic
Danish Prophet of Doom



Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Aalborg
Re: CUT OFF HIS HEAD

quote:
Originally posted by Palestinian
They have opened the gates of Hell. Sharon has cut off all hope for peace between Palestinians and Israelis. When Yassin was killed, HOPE was killed along with him. The only hope left for me is that they cut Sharon's head off.


If hope was so intricatly connected with this man, what would you have done had he died of a heart attack or something similar?
Please keep your head cool.

Old Post Mar-25-2004 14:19  Denmark
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Deejiuana
OstrichAddict



Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Montreal

Tranceaholic, it's not Yassin that's gonna come up with a solution for the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. Hope was killed means Israel's action is just gonna discourage Palestinians to hope for a solution to the crisis - not as in hope died because they killed a man who was gonna solve the issue. If he had died from a heart attack, hope wouldnt have died because he died of a natural cause and the palestinians wouldnt have lost hope since israel wouldnt have had anythin 2 do with the guy's death....

My point is: they didnt lose hope cuz the guy died but cuz Israelis killed him...

Old Post Mar-25-2004 14:43  France
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TranceAddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > Israel Kills Sheikh Yassin (Leader of Hamas)
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