quote:

Originally posted by Matt yeah, because one day people might...OMG NOT SMOKE

i used to smoke. I don't anymore. I realy could care less if i ever had a smoke again, but i don't think ppl should have thier free will taken away from them and not be permitted to smoke outdoors. I have no problem with the smoking ban. I have a sore throat from being in a smoke-filled club friday, my decision to go, but once the ban comes info effect, I will really enjoy not leaving w/ a sore throat and smelly clothes. that is one thing- to ban an activity that clearly afects other ppl going to the club, but banning ppl from smoking anywhere but inside their homes is silly. for one, if parnets smoke and they are only alowed to smoke in their homes and not outside, then they may be smoking w/ their kids in the room..moreover, who wants to livein a country that has that kind of hold on the popu;lation. i mean, yes, t woudl be better if ppl quit smoking. i commend those who quit or never start, however, there are a lot of things that are bad for you-- we make our own decisions on whether we want to do these things- it's good for us, espcially if we take responsiblities for our actions.

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Originally posted by charmscars who wants to live in a country that has that kind of hold on the population.

But thats exactly where this country is headed which is why i am against all these social engienering laws.

This issue isnt about the right to smoke for me. Its about the bigger picture of how much right the government has to enforce its will on people. People who like the non smoking ban will surely be the same ones bitching when they ban BBQs due to emissions. These and many many other issues are very closely related when you see the big picture from where im sitting.

The biggest problem is that as soon as you give in to these zealots and activists they just keep going to the next cause and pushing more and more.

The goal of these zealots is to FORCE everyone to stop smoking. They really dont care about second hand smoke per se and this is just a manipulative tool they use to wedge their point of view into the frey.

I agree that smoking is bad. In a perfect world nobody would smoke and we would have these problems. The problem is that by forcing ADULTS to change their behaviour in this way it opens the door to a whole host of unimaginable possibilities. Just look at the tanning bed example, or the smoking outdoors example. Why we cant drink in public is still beyond me as other countries allow it and all hell has NOT broken loose...

Like i said, we are either a socially progressive nation or we arent. Its time for us to decide.

I think a lot of people are misintrepreting the intentions of the governement.

Because the world is over expanding, we have so many people in such a small area. And in order for us all to live in peace and civility, we need to lay down ground rules so as not to step on others toes (laws and such), possibly causing war, famine, devastation.

We also have created things that are hurting our planet, and leading to the demise of our kind. I think the government is trying to take precautions in order to keep us around a little bit longer.

If you really think about it, if we continue the way we are going now, we will end up poisoning our air so badly, that we will need to wear gas masks all the time. Or we will polute our water to no return, and we all die from thirst, or water contamination. It has already started, so it isn't like I am pulling this out of my ass. Toronto has "smog" warnings for god sakes! What does that tell you?

SOMEONE has to do something to get the rest of us to follow in taking care of what we got and reversing the negative effects. If no action is taken, we are just setting ourselves up for complete distruction.

To the guy who had a spaz out on me:

Perhaps your cigarette in particular may not hurt me, but if you go into a room where about 50 cigarettes are burning, I would say there is a hell of a lot of shit floating around that is gonna cause me some health issues. Yes, I am aware we will all die one day, but personally, I would prefer to die more pleasantly, like of old age, rather than because of some lung cancer eating away at my body.. suffering until I suck in my last breath.

I think you need to see someone die of lung cancer to understand. I watched someone die right in front of me, I watched them cough up blood, I heard them wheeze and grasp for air each time they took a breath, I saw the painkillers and IV's hooked up to them, and worst of all, I saw the sadness in their eyes, because they were going through the most utter hell and pain.

If that's the death you choose, well so be it, but don't take my right away to try and live so that I don't suffer like that.

I have a question for all of you smokers out there. Respectfully, would you go into an old age home/a daycare centre, or better yet, your grandmother/grandfathers or own child's bedroom and smoke a cigarette?

I am sure most of you would probably not, and why? Because you know it isn't good for them. So why is it that those of us who are generally the same age, get ignored and disregarded to being subjected to garbage?

Doesn't make sense to me.

i am a smoker. i enjoy smoking. especially when on some sort of substance.

i have completely changed my viewpoint on this issue.

before i was pissed off and against this legislation, but now i realize, smokers really have no argument. we really don't have a right to poison non smokers. even if the population of non smokers in nightclubs is small, we still don't have a right to poison them.

i'm going to be pissed when the no smoking law gets passed, but at least it will give me one more reason to stop smoking.

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Originally posted by Theresa Respectfully, would you go into an old age home/a daycare centre, or better yet, your grandmother/grandfathers or own child's bedroom and smoke a cigarette?

i dont visit old age homes, i stay away from daycare centres and i sure as hell wouldnt go into my grandparents' room with or without a cigarette


keep in mind as i mentioned before, im neutral on this.

u just try to support urself with hypothethical analysis

___________________
www.elkdee.com
Soundcloud sampler: www.soundcloud.com/elkdee

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Originally posted by The Highroller i am a smoker. i enjoy smoking. especially when on some sort of substance. i have completely changed my viewpoint on this issue. before i was pissed off and against this legislation, but now i realize, smokers really have no argument. we really don't have a right to poison non smokers. even if the population of non smokers in nightclubs is small, we still don't have a right to poison them. i'm going to be pissed when the no smoking law gets passed, but at least it will give me one more reason to stop smoking.

Thank-you for summing it up. The law is designed to protect non-smokers.

-Your Mother

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Originally posted by Jayx1 But thats exactly where this country is headed which is why i am against all these social engienering laws.

FFS, enough of your slippery slope bullshit...just because smoking is being further limited, it doesn't follow that we're destined for some Orwellian 1984 society

Why is the smoking ban being tolerated? Because there isn't enough public outrage. Why isn't there? Because most people with half a brain realize that this is generally a good idea for EVERYONE. Are you upset at seatbelt laws? I mean, you're an adult, you should be able to not wear one if you so choose, by your logic...but it's in EVERYONE's interests to have those laws in place.

Government, to some reasonable extent, being mildly paternalistic is not the end of "freedom" as we know it

You're the one that likes to point out how much worse things are elsewhere (threads on overcrowding)...well, here's a does of your own medicine...compare our rights to those of the majority of other countries. I guess we have it pretty good and YOU should just stop whining?

Lets talk about the social rights you have in Europe or south america and the freedom to do as you please.

For example, the government does not tell you at which hour you can and cannot drink. This is just one example.

Please, do some travelling and experience what its like to have a beer as the sun comes up on a patio next to the beach. Or to enjoy the simple pleasure of being able to run a business without worrying who is going to sue you next for their own stupidity.

You think we have freedom here? No, we only THINK we do...

You picked the wrong example to use here my friend....


PS: how are seatbelt laws in EVERYONE's interest and please do not use the health care argument because that will in essence be a defacto arguement against public health care as far as im concerned.

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Originally posted by Theresa I think a lot of people are misintrepreting the intentions of the governement. Because the world is over expanding, we have so many people in such a small area. And in order for us all to live in peace and civility, we need to lay down ground rules so as not to step on others toes (laws and such), possibly causing war, famine, devastation.

Well I dont wanna start a war, famine, or devastation on the count of my cigarette butt, so I think I will stop from destroying the world by not smoking inside a club and have a law to force me to do that.

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We also have created things that are hurting our planet, and leading to the demise of our kind. I think the government is trying to take precautions in order to keep us around a little bit longer.

Yeah, while you drive your car to work, drink mocca-frappacino's from your local tim hortons, and shop at the mall for your trendy clothes that are made off the blood and sweat of thousands of underpaid sweat shop workers.

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If you really think about it, if we continue the way we are going now, we will end up poisoning our air so badly, that we will need to wear gas masks all the time. Or we will polute our water to no return, and we all die from thirst, or water contamination. It has already started, so it isn't like I am pulling this out of my ass. Toronto has "smog" warnings for god sakes! What does that tell you?

Well this tells me two things, one is that your stupid, secondly that smog has little to do with cigarette butts. Maybe its the industrial factories that strive to keep our economy open yet pollute our Earth in order for our own survival, not to mention that nice car you drive around that is a luxury you take oh so for granted, yet have wonderful fully working legs and feet to get you anywhere. Don't piss on cigarette smoke likes its the leading cause of all air pollution in this world.

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SOMEONE has to do something to get the rest of us to follow in taking care of what we got and reversing the negative effects. If no action is taken, we are just setting ourselves up for complete distruction.

Lets hope that someone isn't you, otherwise were gonna be in a shitstorm of mis-informed and badly shaped laws...

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To the guy who had a spaz out on me:

The names Rico, RodRico to you.

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Perhaps your cigarette in particular may not hurt me, but if you go into a room where about 50 cigarettes are burning, I would say there is a hell of a lot of shit floating around that is gonna cause me some health issues. Yes, I am aware we will all die one day, but personally, I would prefer to die more pleasantly, like of old age, rather than because of some lung cancer eating away at my body.. suffering until I suck in my last breath.

Listen, if you honestly think about the percentage of people who die from second hand smoke, were looking at a less than 1 percent chance of dying from inhaling other peoples smoke, then compared to the millions of other ways you can die. The only people who die from lung cancer are those who are actually real smokers, the statistics of you dying from my second hand smoke are quite low.

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I think you need to see someone die of lung cancer to understand. I watched someone die right in front of me, I watched them cough up blood, I heard them wheeze and grasp for air each time they took a breath, I saw the painkillers and IV's hooked up to them, and worst of all, I saw the sadness in their eyes, because they were going through the most utter hell and pain.

First of all, you dont know if someone close to me has died from lung cancer, you make some assumption that I have no understanding of the pain someone who dies from Lung Cancer. But see, I do this thing called thinking, and what it does for me is it checks the rationality of your claims, and while I see your stats its not enough for me to try and take away legal rights away from the people, on another note...have you ever watched someone die slowly after being run over by a car? its quite disgustingly horrible, and yet, you dont see me trying to ban cars. Not that Im going to say that smoking is good for you, dont get me wrong, I plan on quiting soon, and taking this as a step towards having cleaner air in the clubs and not having to stink like an ashtray when I leave any club. I just dont like being forced by people to make decisions for me and strip away my rights without even trying to accomodate me in any possible way.

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I have a question for all of you smokers out there. Respectfully, would you go into an old age home/a daycare centre, or better yet, your grandmother/grandfathers or own child's bedroom and smoke a cigarette?

What does this have to do with clubbing and the new law that was passed? How about, when you live like an Amish person, then you can tell me about how your life choices dont affect my health everday, he who has not sinned may cast the first stone..

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I am sure most of you would probably not, and why? Because you know it isn't good for them. So why is it that those of us who are generally the same age, get ignored and disregarded to being subjected to garbage? Doesn't make sense to me.

As I am sure many things dont make sense to you, but you are right on something, I wouldnt go out of my way to kill others (tho I wish I could) and I definately dont care for enviroment and heatlh issues, since our system is so beyond flawed in dealing with these topics. All I know is, I dont care for your crusades or your ideas to be forced upon me, I want to make my own decisions and live my life as I see it fit.

Good post rico. Its amazing how people who never even set foot in a club are so worried about what goes on there in regards to smoking. Its also amazing how concerned people are about second hand smoke yet will gladly walk down the street in Downtown Toronto (which IMO is much much more hazardous to your health breathing wise)

As for the pollution rant, rico is again absolutely right. Until you stop doing anything unnatural to the environment i would appreciate the end to the holier-than-thou speech.

BTW unnatural is everything from heating your home, to use electricity, to using an electric motor to transport yourself (including transit) or buying any sort of commodity what so ever (since it had to be transported by a fossil fuel burning vehicle not to mention the pollution created to create the product)

The reason why city councils and politicians are going after pesticide use, smoking, and as i predict in the future BBQs and motorized lawnmowers is because they are soft targets. It passifies the zealots (for awhile at least).

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Originally posted by Jayx1 This issue isnt about the right to smoke for me. Its about the bigger picture of how much right the government has to enforce its will on people.

Um...newflash...it's the people that called for it; not the government...

For the record this is the THIRD PHASE of an overall smoke-free plan.
I don't see why all the crying now...
It's not like this is news...

I'm glad it's finally coming as are all my friends.
I have nothing against smokers, it's the smoke they produce that bothers me.

Facts about second-hand smoke:
http://www.city.toronto.on.ca/healt..._fact_sheet.pdf

Who exactly are the "people"?

Poll aunt maude and uncle lester and im sure they are all for banning smoking in nightclubs and strip bars.

Take a look at the people toasting the passing of the law at union station last week. I dont think any of them have even stepped foot in a nightclub since Lester B pearson was in office!!