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Originally posted by PVD & T[]C B-E-A-UTIFUL.... i think you said it better than most of us could. i know a lot of people who are religious and when i tell them that there is no prood, whats the deal with faith, etc etc. all they say is, well dont you have faith in scientists. "well, i dont have to. They can give me proof."

Scientists don't give you proof. Scientists give you theories/explanations, which are in accordance with recorded observations to some degree.

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Originally posted by PVD & T[]C something i want a religious person to explain is: -adaptation/evolution

Evolution is a scientific theory/explanation explaining some observations (fossils etc.). How would you have christianity explain an explanation?

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Originally posted by PVD & T[]C -where is heaven and hell

"Where" is a relation characteristic of the physical universe. It makes no sense to apply it to things which are not part of the universe. It's like asking what's the IP-address of a teddy bear.

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Originally posted by PVD & T[]C -how did all the animals fit on a boat and redistribute

The story of Noah is in the old testament. Christianity is based on the new one. Mores specifically the four gospels.

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Originally posted by PVD & T[]C -how did they build the boat out of wood, and somehow make all the logs/peices so close together to keep them water proof

In the same way mankind built all other boats, I'd guess. Columbus had the same problem when going to America I would think. Don't you believe in America?

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Originally posted by PVD & T[]C -what proof do you have of anything

I challenge you to define what you mean by proof, including some examples of "scientific proofs".

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Originally posted by PVD & T[]C -what kind of "god" condemns 2/3 of the world to eternal damnation because they dont share the same veiws or because they are homosexual, etc.

I don't think God is to blame for that. It's all in the mind of the interpreters of the scriptures.

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Originally posted by PVD & T[]C -what kind of god would allow all the horrible things happen to the human race, even strong believers

A mean god.

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Originally posted by PVD & T[]C there is just far too much wrong with christianity and imo any religion that is based around a creater god(no offense)

Quite a generalization there. I would agree that blind adherence to the wording of the bible is a mistake, but why should that invalidate any other religion involving a creation?

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Originally posted by PVD & T[]C someone gimme proof and i will stop fighting for atheism

The problem with your reasoning is that you seem to be totally unaware that the atheism, which you advocate, is as huge a blindfold as any religion that you might think of. Go and read just a few books on the nature of mathematics, logics, and languages and you will find that science is not *the truth*, and that asking for religious people to give you "proof" makes no sense.

Btw. I'm not a Christian (actually I'm a scientist), so you might find my comments irrelevant.

To beleive that there isn`t a God takes just as big a step in faith as to believe that there is a God.

Personally for that reason alone im an agnostic but i admit i have atheistic tendencies of belief.

___________________
Ladies and gentlemen... we are floating in space!

"If you take the simplest, crudest notion of self-consciousness, I suppose that would be the sort of self-consciousness that a lobster has: When it`s hungry, it eats something, but it never eats itself. It has some way of distinguishing between itself and the rest of the world, and it ahs a rather special regard for itself."
Daniel Dennett

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Originally posted by mongeone To beleive that there isn`t a God takes just as big a step in faith as to believe that there is a God. Personally for that reason alone im an agnostic but i admit i have atheistic tendencies of belief.

agreed

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Originally posted by mongeone To beleive that there isn`t a God takes just as big a step in faith as to believe that there is a God.

No it doesn't. Knowing that something you cannot see, hear, smell, taste or feel probably doesn't exist is surely one of the primary foundations of a sane mind. If something doesn't exist, then it doesn't exist - why should this admission constitute a leap of faith?

___________________
http://eschatonnow.blogspot.com/

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Originally posted by Renegade No it doesn't. Knowing that something you cannot see, hear, smell, taste or feel probably doesn't exist is surely one of the primary foundations of a sane mind. If something doesn't exist, then it doesn't exist - why should this admission constitute a leap of faith?

Can you prove it doesnt exist? No, you cant (unless you are the most amazing philosopher to have ever existed). Therefore it is a leap of faith to believe there is no such thing as a god.

___________________
Ladies and gentlemen... we are floating in space!

"If you take the simplest, crudest notion of self-consciousness, I suppose that would be the sort of self-consciousness that a lobster has: When it`s hungry, it eats something, but it never eats itself. It has some way of distinguishing between itself and the rest of the world, and it ahs a rather special regard for itself."
Daniel Dennett

Last edited by mongeone on Aug-22-2004 at 05:30

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Originally posted by mongeone Can you prove it doesnt exist? No, you cant (unless you are the most amazing philosopher to have ever existed). Therefore it is a leap of faith to believe there is no such thing as a god.

Since when did rational skepticism come to be regarded as a "leap of faith"? Do you consider the rejection of the existence of Santa Claus or the Easter bunny as a leap of faith? Granted it's not quite the same, but I'm sure you follow the logic. Remember, aetheism is not the belief that there is no God but a rejection of the belief that there is a God (well weak atheism at any rate, but how many people can you find who are strong atheists?). Subtle but important distinction.

___________________
Retro ...

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Originally posted by mongeone Can you prove it doesnt exist? No, you cant (unless you are the most amazing philosopher to have ever existed). Therefore it is a leap of faith to believe there is no such thing as a god.

The onus lies upon the person making the claim to give supporting evidence of that claim. The burden is never upon the other person to attempt to prove a negative.

By your logic, since no one can prove that Allah, Buddha, and the Christian God do not exist, along with Zeus, Athena, or any other religious Deity, we must therefore assume that they all exist.

Are you willing to accept that possibility of multiple gods and goddesses?

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

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Originally posted by torontotrance Gay Marriage is unacceptable in my view and will always be such. The difference between most of you and me is the following 1)I live by different standards, you live by the world's narrow minded view of happiness and self fulfillment, where the world says if it feels good do it and as long as you are not hurting others, it's ok. I live by God's standards where his guidelines are what guides my life, he is my happiness and the reason that I have joy. 2)You view the Bible as a bunch of old people making crap up and you view it as a book with errors. I view it as error free and will always have that opinion. 3)99.9999% of you don't understand the Bible or Christianity and your tainted views don't hold water imo. You can generalize all you want and most of you tend to do that. 4)I'd say nearly 100% of you lack that total sense of fulfillment and you are searching for something to fill that empty hole in your life. The difference with me is that hole is filled in my life and will always be.

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I agree with you pal, l know what you mean

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Originally posted by MisterOpus1 Buddha

Just to nitpick, the Buddha isn't really considered a god -- most Buddhist traditions look on him as fully human.

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Originally posted by mr.anderson --------- I agree with you pal, l know what you mean

Care to explain why, or are you just here to cheerlead?

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Originally posted by arctic Care to explain why, or are you just here to cheerlead?

no, l won't , l don't like arguing about subjects like this