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| quote: | Originally posted by Ang ' ela_ie
A fetus (also known as an unborn CHILD) has started the life process at conception (the joining of egg/sperm). Do I need to run back through 5th grade health class with you??? |
It may have "started the life process", but how does that entitle it to special rights not given to sperm and ovum which are also alive and - in some very real sense - "unborn children"? Does an "unborn child" require two cells rather than one before it has any rights? Wouldn't you say that that was a rather arbitrary classification?
There is a point at which the life growing inside the woman has the same rights as a human being (the point at which it is developed enough to survive as an independent being - 22+ weeks) but that point is not in the zygotic or early-fetal stages. An abortion prior to this point simply constitutes the removal of human tissue from the human body - it is no more immoral than ovulating or having an appendix removed. Both of these things are human and alive, but are not people, so why should a fetus - which is the same in this regard - have rights not granted to these parts of the body?
| quote: | | OMG. Go to a feminism seminar or something, really. |
What does this discussion have to do with feminism? I'm a humanist, not a feminist.
| quote: | | There are pictures that indicate "fetuses" with their mouths wide open screaming as they are being "aborted" within the time limit you so succinctly put down. |
Yes. Poorly faked pictures.
Facial features don't even start developing until 12 weeks and the development of the muscles and organs necessary to "scream" don't develop until much later.
| quote: | | There is a reason why abortion is so controversial. Although it may be cut and dry in your mind, it isn't to everyone else. |
And people are free to come to their own conclusions! I'm not saying abortion is a "good" thing - no-one on the planet is "pro-abortion" - I'm just saying that it is a personal choice and it is not a decision that anyone has the right to step in and prevent until the fetus attains personhood. Enferno's wife's stance on abortion is every bit as valid as your mine or his, but my point is that she's the one with the fetus and so - regardless of what we all think - it is her decision.
I would never encourage her to have an abortion (or dissuade her from having one for that matter) but ultimately the choice is hers and hers alone. That's all I'm trying to say.
| quote: | | I have no rights to tell any woman what she should or shouldn't do in these circumstances |
Then what are we arguing about? 
| quote: | | but you have to understand why this guy is upset about the situation. |
I do, but I'm also trying to tell him that he has to think beyond his own immediate view-point for a second. Besides, if he wanted to have a child that badly, what's stopping them from trying for another one in the future when they're both ready?
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