quote:

Originally posted by NeoPhono The parents are responsible for the pregnancy because they caused the pregnancy.

there's quite a difference between that statement and this one:

quote:

Originally posted by NeoPhono The point is people have sex with the knowledge that a very substantial propability exists that they will become pregnant. Going into an event with knowledge of what can and will occur a very large percentage of the time makes them responsible for whatever that outcome may be.

both a pregnancy and the hypothetical (or realistic) situation i offered involve a choice with knowledge of what can and will occur a large percentage of the time; going by your logic, that places the relavant parties of both situations as responsible.

going on another line of thought - suppose the mechanics of pregnancy were reversed in that the absence of sexual intercourse would lead to pregnancy rather than the occurance of sexual intercourse (to make the hypothetical a little more viable, suppose the frequency of sexual intercourse needed to avoid pregnancy is once per year);
would a woman who had the opportunity to have sex within that year yet didn't be held responsible for her pregnancy.

note: external factors would be irrelavant, as external factors also exist in the first hypothetical.

___________________
People who own my ass: Citric Acid, Boomer187, Tribu, Sand Leaper,
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Psy-T - Down The Rabbit Hole (400minute long acid set)

quote:

Originally posted by Psy-T both a pregnancy and the hypothetical (or realistic) situation i offered involve a choice with knowledge of what can and will occur a large percentage of the time; going by your logic, that places the relavant parties of both situations as responsible. going on another line of thought - suppose the mechanics of pregnancy were reversed in that the absence of sexual intercourse would lead to pregnancy rather than the occurance of sexual intercourse (to make the hypothetical a little more viable, suppose the frequency of sexual intercourse needed to avoid pregnancy is once per year); would a woman who had the opportunity to have sex within that year yet didn't be held responsible for her pregnancy. note: external factors would be irrelavant, as external factors also exist in the first hypothetical.

No, if you want to turn both of the cases into variables to make it more simplistic, this is how I would do it.

Group "A" knows that if they proceed with action "B" that it is highly probable that the result "C" will occur, and that outcome will be completely and entirely the result of group "A"'s action.

-or-

Group "A" knows that if they proceed with action "B" that it is highly probable that the result "C" will occur, and that result will be completely and entirely the result of group "D"'s action.


Replacing the variables (and a little more to make it more readable) would give you.

Parents know that if they proceed with sexual intercourse it is highly likely that a pregnancy will occur and that pregnancy will be completely and entirely the result of their actions.

Jews knew that if they decided not to leave Germany it was highly likely that they would be killed, and their death would be completely and entirely the result of the Nazi's actions.

The parents are responsible for the pregnancy because they knew a pregnancy could occur by having sex and the pregnancy occured entirely by their own actions.

The Jews are not responsible for their deaths because they knew their deaths could occur by staying in Germany, but their deaths were the result of the actions of another group entirely.

I guess to sum it up another way; you are responsible for your actions if you know what could happen by performing such action, and you are the one who caused the consequence to occur.


As far as your other hypothetical, I'm tired and I'm not following it, but I honestly don't see how a hypothetical that completely changes the biology of reproduction has anything to do with either proving or disproving a point that has to do with "real world" reproduction.

quote:

Originally posted by NeoPhono I guess to sum it up another way; you are responsible for your actions if you know what could happen by performing such action, and you are the one who caused the consequence to occur. As far as your other hypothetical, I'm tired and I'm not following it, but I honestly don't see how a hypothetical that completely changes the biology of reproduction has anything to do with either proving or disproving a point that has to do with "real world" reproduction.

it would remove the action vs. inaction discrepency with which you have a problem and give more insight as to your stance.

i could have just as easily used the second hypothetical as a modification of the first which would give the same results, but i didn't think of it at the time.

___________________
People who own my ass: Citric Acid, Boomer187, Tribu, Sand Leaper,
Jackson, venomX, jamie, Renegade, Konjin, Akridrot, Miss Bliss.
Psy-T - Down The Rabbit Hole (400minute long acid set)