quote:

Originally posted by Soeder I draw beard on peoples face in Magazines, but i actually don't consider myself as an artist.

It doesn´t matter if you consider yourself as an artist or not, your way of thinking won´t deny the existence of art.

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quote:

Originally posted by SMC This endless DJ - musician or not discussion is really annoying. A DJ is not a musician, he's a DJ. To DJ is one type of performance/art/whatever and creating music is another. What is the point in comparing the two like if they're alternatives to each other? They're not. They're two different things that get regognition for the differnt things they do. It's like having a bus manufacturer vs bus driver discussion, where the manufacturer is the musician, the driver is the DJ and the passengers are the audience. Does the driver have any skills? - No, he sucks. The engineer rocks! - Wrong, the driver is an engineer imo! - stfu, most drivers can't drive. We should only have engineers working, then the busses will go automatically.

DJ is a musician !!!

DJ should really understand music really well, so THEY CAN CHOOSE A GREAT SONG FOR US. They can be a producer too.

DJ is about Music.

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quote:

Originally posted by d-miurge a DJ is a musician. But a musician is not necessarily an artist. Here is the difference.

True.

DJ is about music.

Musician is about music.

Both are the same, just they have a DIFFERENT WAY.

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quote:

Originally posted by Beethoven DJ is a musician !!! They can be a producer too.

They can't without musical background and technical knowledge.

Djs are often the ones who sit in the studio next to the engineer and just tell what they want. They often can't even play keyboards or know the basic notes. But gladly take the credit from others productions.

You don't learn producing or develop your musical ear by mixing some tunes together. You actully need to play some real instrument for that. DJs often have good view whatkind of tracks work in the dance floor. But it doesn't make dj a musician in my eyes.

Of course there are lot's of djs who also have the musical background and know their way in studio. But it doesn't make you a musician if you just play other peoples music. You need to have more than that.

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quote:

Originally posted by breakaholic They can't without musical background and technical knowledge. Djs are often the ones who sit in the studio next to the engineer and just tell what they want. They often can't even play keyboards or know the basic notes. But gladly take the credit from others productions. You don't learn producing or develop your musical ear by mixing some tunes together. You actully need to play some real instrument for that. DJs often have good view whatkind of tracks work in the dance floor. But it doesn't make dj a musician in my eyes. Of course there are lot's of djs who also have the musical background and know their way in studio. But it doesn't make you a musician if you just play other peoples music. You need to have more than that.

some of your ideas are true. im happy to hear ur ideas.

however they can make music without any musical background. even they dont have any musical background, they still can be a producer. have you ever heard this records? ROMAN FLUGEL -GEHTS NOCH?

this song really have a creative tune, but the musical backround sucks. i have many friends of good dj. most of them learn music from listening music. he can make good trance music by using a software, (HE PROOF IT). while he doesnt play any keyboard.

by listening to music very oftenly, we learn something about music.

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Anyone who can play chopsticks on the piano and knows how to work a Game Boy can be a DJ

quote:

Originally posted by Beethoven some of your ideas are true. im happy to hear ur ideas. however they can make music without any musical background. even they dont have any musical background, they still can be a producer. have you ever heard this records? ROMAN FLUGEL -GEHTS NOCH? this song really have a creative tune, but the musical backround sucks. i have many friends of good dj. most of them learn music from listening music. he can make good trance music by using a software, (HE PROOF IT). while he doesnt play any keyboard. by listening to music very oftenly, we learn something about music.

You can make a track without musical background (if you have the technical skill), the same way you can learn to play guitar in two weeks and write your first track then. But you can't be very good at it, unless you are a musical prodigy. I don't believe you can learn to write good melodies just by listening the music? This is what djs basicly do and then mix it. Then we all should know how to write melodies, I'm sure you also have listened tons of music in your life.

I have only the musician view, 12 years of writing my own tracks. Started with keyboards & guitar, played 4-5 years (rock,pop,alternative)and then in 1999 moved to producing tracks myself. For me someone who can't play keyboard or don't know the notes is not really a very talented musician. Software makes it very easy to write tracks these days, you can simply use preset arps or sample stuff. And of course you learn the melodies in the process but it's no coinsidence that names like BT had 10 years of musical background (piano) and then started producing his own tracks. You definitely hear it on his tracks, he masters everything.

It's just very hard for me to believe that dj who is just taking his first steps in studio, could actually write a track that could be released right away.

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But this is interesting debate. I'd like to hear comments from djs as well who don't have the musical background. Do you feel you that dj:ing has improved your skills in writing your own music (if you produce tracks as well) ?

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fuck off troll

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as to the aesthetics discussion;
1. what is art?
2. what are art's charataristics?
3. do these charataristics exhibit themselves in thing x?
3a. if so, thing x qwualifies as art in your worldview.
3b. if not, thing x idoes not qualify as art in your worldview.

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yes

quote:

Originally posted by Psy-T as to the aesthetics discussion; 1. what is art? 2. what are art's charataristics? 3. do these charataristics exhibit themselves in thing x? 3a. if so, thing x qwualifies as art in your worldview. 3b. if not, thing x idoes not qualify as art in your worldview.

1. what is art?

quote:

Yes, you can argue too that the industrial design of the 70s should be considered as an art, as well as the 'ready-made' pieces like the Duchamp's toilet! But I don't like the era of our postmodern relativism, where everything is art, and everybody can be an artist. There are 2 possible explanations to understand these mutations of the artistic activity: 1/ This is the end of Art, that is to say that the modern art is only a masquerade. Art has proven its own autodestruction. 2/ The nihilism of the modern Art has reached the limits of the objective representation, ie that Art has reached its historical bound. That's exactly what Hegel said: the question is no more "What is an artwork? but rather "Why do am I an artwork?". The contemporary period sees for a bunch of decades the end of Art. It doesn't mean that there are no more artworks, but that Art has reached such a level of autoreflexion that it has became philosophically "adult". So, it is because we see something as artistic that it becomes an artwork.

As I said in the first sentences of my post, I'm opposed to this conception of art. For me, art is the last and highest level of the human intellectual process, and not everybody can access to it. An artist has a genius way to create. That's why I split musicians and artists.

2.What are art's charataristics?
Consequently, a work can be considered as an artwork thanks to the affective value of the artistic creative process. The nihilism of modern art tends to give any artifacts the status of an artwork, but in my conception, that's only the message that the artist has inserted in his artwork that make an artifact an artwork. For instance, when you look at 5 same monochrome bleu, only the affective message that Yves Klein (the original painter) would like to show involves that the picture is an artwork.

3. This fundamental characteristic is in consequence not obvious, easy to see, or even to understand!
3.a. Composition 9 of Vassily Kandinsky can express art in my view:

3.b. The fountain of Marcel Duchamp is the opposite:

Lots of DJ's play musical instruments, just being able to play doesn't make you a good producer of music either. In fact, tons of musicians can't even weitr good songs.

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