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Originally posted by astroboy Don't know anything about him I'm afraid. Despite having gone to a Catholic school for 5 years then an Anglican one for 7 years my knowledge of Christian theology is near non-existent.

The Natural Law, as applied to the case of human beings, requires greater precision because of the fact that we have reason and free will. It is the our nature humans to act freely (i.e. to be provident for ourselves and others) by being inclined toward our proper acts and end. That is, we human beings must exercise our natural reason to discover what is best for us in order to acheive the end to which their nature inclines. Furhtermore, we must exercise our freedom, by choosing what reason determines to naturally suited to us, i.e. what is best for our nature. The natural inclination of humans to acheive their proper end through reason and free will is the natural law. Formally defined, the Natural Law is humans' participation in the Eternal Law, through reason and will. Humans actively participate in the eternal law of God (the governance of the world) by using reason in conformity with the Natural Law to discern what is good and evil.




This is the 3rd paragraph of the explanation whole thing here:

http://www.aquinasonline.com/Topics/natlaw.html

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Originally posted by Dj O'Callaghan I don't believe or agree with any religion.

Im just about ready to renounce religion with that argument

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Originally posted by Theresa 90% of it contradicts itself. The bible promotes slavery, beating wives and treating them like posessions. It teaches on how you should physically punish your children, your slaves, and your wives. ETC ETC ETC.

You need to recognize that the new testiment in many ways refutes the old testiment. The mission of Jesus' ministry was to correct the errors the Jews had made in interpreting the stories of the old testiment and God's laws. All of the things you mentioned are refutiated by the ministry of Jesus and all are deemed unacceptable under the "new covenent".

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Originally posted by RickyM you're just a shit version of Moral Hazard. At least he knows what he's talking about.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN lol, i love it when moral feels the need to lay the smack down

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Originally posted by idoru I maintain my belief that, regardless of whether or not God truly exists, the Bible is an excellent source of moral advice/guidelines.

Buddhism is much better

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Originally posted by kr00t0n Buddhism is much better

Are you talking about the message or the cantrips?

Because eastern philosophies tend to be daily life actions as in "Do this and this and think about things this way"

I have read up on Zen and all that and it gives good day to day stuff. When it comes down to it though, they are covering different aspects. One is saying appreciate bowls and spoons appreciate everything one is talking about a moral code existing and making an appeal to have faith and be part of community.

They deal with seperate issues imo

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Originally posted by Orbax I have read up on Zen and all that and it gives good day to day stuff. When it comes down to it though, they are covering different aspects. One is saying appreciate bowls and spoons appreciate everything one is talking about a moral code existing and making an appeal to have faith and be part of community. They deal with seperate issues imo

You need to read more. Most of the Eastern religions address morality in much the same way the Abrahamic religions do. In fact Christian and Buddhist morality are very similar with the exception that Buddhism extends the message of peace and love to every living being, not just humans (Jainists go even further in this regard... hard core pacifism there!).

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Originally posted by RickyM you're just a shit version of Moral Hazard. At least he knows what he's talking about.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN lol, i love it when moral feels the need to lay the smack down

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard You need to read more. Most of the Eastern religions address morality in much the same way the Abrahamic religions do. In fact Christian and Buddhist morality are very similar with the exception that Buddhism extends the message of peace and love to every living being, not just humans (Jainists go even further in this regard... hard core pacifism there!).

There's more relevant moral direction in a very special episode of Blossom, than there is in a typical religious morality tale.

Likewise "Casting the first stone" is a succinct and perfect piece of wisdom. It is Universally broadcasted, and universally known.

Yet stone sales are always strong.



I'd sum it up this semi-cryptic way... when you are in high school, a friend's parent(s) is always going away for the weekend. Parents aren't stupid, and neither are you.

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Originally posted by Subey Likewise "Casting the first stone" is a succinct and perfect piece of wisdom. It is Universally broadcasted, and universally known. Yet stone sales are always strong.

The fact that many don't listen doesn't mean the message is flawed.

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Luke 4: 14-21 Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the Spirit, and news of him spread throughout the whole region. He taught in their synagogues and was praised by all. He came to Nazareth, where he had grown up, and went according to his custom into the synagogue on the sabbath day.He stood up to read and was handed a scroll of the prophet Isaiah. He unrolled the scroll and found the passage where it was written: "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to bring glad tidings to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim liberty to captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to let the oppressed go free, and to proclaim a year acceptable to the Lord." Rolling up the scroll, he handed it back to the attendant and sat down, and the eyes of all in the synagogue looked intently at him. He said to them, "Today this scripture passage is fulfilled in your hearing."

The point is in the line "today this scripture passage is fulfilled in your hearing"... all the lessons of the bible are only as good as the people receiving the message. Stone sales remain high because people choose not to hear.

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Originally posted by RickyM you're just a shit version of Moral Hazard. At least he knows what he's talking about.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN lol, i love it when moral feels the need to lay the smack down

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard The fact that many don't listen doesn't mean the message is flawed. The point is in the line "today this scripture passage is fulfilled in your hearing"... all the lessons of the bible are only as good as the people receiving the message. Stone sales remain high because people choose not to hear.

that would imply some people are 'bad' by nature (and/or nurture).
if that is the case, what can they do to become 'good'?
if nothing, that would imply some people are doomed (to hell?) from the get-go.

doesn't sit very comfortably with omnibenevolence i'd say.

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Originally posted by Psy-T that would imply some people are 'bad' by nature (and/or nurture). if that is the case, what can they do to become 'good'? if nothing, that would imply some people are doomed (to hell?) from the get-go. doesn't sit very comfortably with omnibenevolence i'd say.

I think you've taken a different connotation from my use of the word good then what was intended. Perhaps I should phrase it thus: the lessons of the bible are only effective if people choose to heed said lessons.

With regard to people being either "good" or "bad" by nature, as you put it; I simply do not believe that. Myself, I don't believe people are either good or bad (poor words BTW... let's go with rightious and evil), however, a person's actions in a given situation can be either.

How one becomes rightious is really not for me to say as the very concept of rightiousness is faith based and faith is a personal thing. I would suggest if one were interested in determining where they fall on the spectrum they would have to assess themselves based on the teachings of their faith or on their own values if faith is not present in their life. I would further recommend if one were unsatisfied with how their self-examination turned out they should look deeper into the teachings of their faith and really try to apply those lessons to their lives.

Edit... with regard to omnibenevolence, none of the gods in any of the major religions are characterized such. This is a misinterpretation that has been made, primarlly (I suspect) by persons trying to comfort themselfs from what they see as their personal failings by assuring themselfs the God will forgive all with no requirement from them to change their behaviour. I cannot say forsure about other faiths, however, in the Christian traditions it is quite clear that God only forgives those that seek forgiveness and abstain from continuing to sin.... this is to say that if a man cheats on his wife and seeks God's forgiveness it is granted provided he not continue the affair.

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Originally posted by RickyM you're just a shit version of Moral Hazard. At least he knows what he's talking about.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN lol, i love it when moral feels the need to lay the smack down

Last edited by Moral Hazard on Jan-22-2007 at 17:30

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard I think you've taken a different connotation from my use of the word good then what was intended. Perhaps I should phrase it thus: the lessons of the bible are only effective if people choose to heed said lessons. With regard to people being either "good" or "bad" by nature, as you put it; I simply do not believe that. Myself, I don't believe people are either good or bad (poor words BTW... let's go with rightious and evil), however, a person's actions in a given situation can be either. How one becomes rightious is really not for me to say as the very concept of rightiousness is faith based and faith is a personal thing. I would suggest if one were interested in determining where they fall on the spectrum they would have to assess themselves based on the teachings of their faith or on their own values if faith is not present in their life. I would further recommend if one were unsatisfied with how their self-examination turned out they should look deeper into the teachings of their faith and really try to apply those lessons to their lives.

figured it'll only be semantics.

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People who own my ass: Citric Acid, Boomer187, Tribu, Sand Leaper,
Jackson, venomX, jamie, Renegade, Konjin, Akridrot, Miss Bliss.
Psy-T - Down The Rabbit Hole (400minute long acid set)