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TranceAddict Forums > Local Scene Info / Discussion / EDM Event Listings > Canada > Canada - Toronto & Southern Ont. > Globalwarming, Fact or Theory???
What is Globalwarming?
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Scientific Fact 78 67.24%
Theory 22 18.97%
I dont care, we will die before it affects us anyway! 16 13.79%
Total: 116 votes 100%
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Jem_hadar
I remember...



Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Pandora (South of Nowhere)
Thumbs up

Solid.

Great article, thanks for sharing that, Bobby. A very good read on this Monday afternoon.


___________________
TECHNO IS THE BEST NOISE ON EARTH.
Save Techno - Stop Minimal / Tech-House

Old Post Aug-13-2007 21:21  Canada
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Orko
Digital Hippie



Registered: Nov 2002
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

quote:
Originally posted by exraver
Come on people, in 8 pages nobody mentioned Y2K?
Some of you should remember it?
Corporations made tons of money, nothing happened, now everybody is freaking out about next big thing.
Millions are zombies, corporations will make tons of money and 10 years later nobody would remember, just like now Y2K.
Wake up!


Except for the fact that it was the corps spending money to make sure their systems didnt fail.

I don't know a single individual who 'prepared' for Y2k.

Old Post Aug-14-2007 00:10  India
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RobotHouse
CHEESE IT!



Registered: Mar 2007
Location: Hamilton/Toronto

quote:
Originally posted by exraver
Come on people, in 8 pages nobody mentioned Y2K?
Some of you should remember it?
Corporations made tons of money, nothing happened, now everybody is freaking out about next big thing.
Millions are zombies, corporations will make tons of money and 10 years later nobody would remember, just like now Y2K.
Wake up!

Hahahaha what an idiot.

Explain how big corporations make money off people consuming less fossil fuels, switching to energy saving appliances (which the energy companies give you a rebate for) and having to meet more strict pollution laws.

No no, you're right though. It is the next big thing, just like evolution was the big thing and by God we proved that wrong.

If anyone has serious doubts try checking out Al Gore's documentary An Inconvenient Truth.

Either way, being smart about pollution and energy is the right thing to do; global warming or not.

Old Post Aug-14-2007 00:17  Canada
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Orko
Digital Hippie



Registered: Nov 2002
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

quote:
Originally posted by RobotHouse
Hahahaha what an idiot.

Explain how big corporations make money off people consuming less fossil fuels, switching to energy saving appliances (which the energy companies give you a rebate for) and having to meet more strict pollution laws.

No no, you're right though. It is the next big thing, just like evolution was the big thing and by God we proved that wrong.

If anyone has serious doubts try checking out Al Gore's documentary An Inconvenient Truth.

Either way, being smart about pollution and energy is the right thing to do; global warming or not.


I'd say you are the idiot. exraver's point about y2k didnt hold, but it does when applied to global warming. Companies are making huge money off of globa warming, but you just have to look to see how.

1) Carbon Offsets. If you don't know what they are, check them out. Gore himself is on the board of a huge carbon offset fund. He is also a massive polluter.

2) Being Green is caring. Big corps are now advertising how green they are. Dominion advertising that they are lowering their energy bills with nice glossy, colourful ads (oil based paints). Loblaws and everbody else selling 'green' shopping bags. Green this, green that. Massive advertising is going into this, that means ad companies also making money.

3) Consulting/Sustainability. A lot of engineering firms are now doing consulting to see how 'green' projects are. They are also doing sustainability analysis'. I'm friends with a lot of engineers (chemical, physics, geology), and they all have jobs thanks to this growing trend. They have told me how bullshit their work is.

4) Scientific research. A lot of scientists are now getting grants to determine the effects of global warming or CO2 emissions. They need the scare to continue to have research to do.

5) Automotive. Car companies are all supporting and pouring out hybrid cars. The ironic part? Hybrids are some of the most un-eco-friendly cars on the road. The batteries take so much power to make (and only last a few years), that you might as well drive around a hummer instead cause you will do less damage.

As for Gore's movie...right there the guy is making money. Just last week he was on Oprah promotting his movie, and sure enough at the end of the show, both Gore and Queen Bee yell "if dont know about global warming, go buy the DVD!".

The movie is filled with a lot of holes. Please do some research before you blindly believe him. He even shot himself in the foot on Oprah, by not actually refuting the sceptic they had on. All Gore did was say look, all these other scientists believe in global warming, so the sceptic is wrong. Thats not an argument, that's an appeal to authority, which does not prove a damn thing.

Last edited by Orko on Aug-14-2007 at 00:54

Old Post Aug-14-2007 00:48  India
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Jem_hadar
I remember...



Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Pandora (South of Nowhere)

For those who site Al Gore's movie "AIT" as proof of 'global warming,'

I'd say to them, go read Michael Crichton's novel STATE OF FEAR (to get a general idea of the other side of the coin, though the books purpose wasn't to be a written documentary on the matter...)

... For that, I say go read the many research articles and papers and presentations he's given (one to the US Government) about how we are not to blame for "global warming"...


If someone responds to discredit him by saying hes only a 'fiction writer', I'll respond "well what more Al Gore, the ex vice president more of a legit source, hmmm??

Both have done massive research on the subject (each on their side/POV)...

(and I know Michael Crichton is not shy on his research, the man is thorough and spends years (for real, not kidding) usually researching his topics for his novels, take a look at his bibliographies for his most recent several novels)


___________________
TECHNO IS THE BEST NOISE ON EARTH.
Save Techno - Stop Minimal / Tech-House

Old Post Aug-14-2007 00:56  Canada
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DigiNut
You kids get off my lawn!



Registered: Dec 2002
Location: Toronto, Self-proclaimed Centre of the Universe

quote:
Originally posted by RobotHouse
Explain how big corporations make money off people consuming less fossil fuels, switching to energy saving appliances (which the energy companies give you a rebate for) and having to meet more strict pollution laws.

The rebates on energy saving appliances are subsidized by the government. Ergo, we actually pay for them. Think of it as environmental welfare. The companies who make them still get paid in full, and the energy-savers are usually more expensive than the pigs.

Money spent on fossil fuels also goes to the oil companies. "Corporations" aren't one big hive mind, they're a diverse market made up of many competitors all fighting for a piece of the pie. Oil companies would love to put the alternative energy researchers and developers out of business; likewise, the alt-e companies dream of blowing the oil companies off the map.

Ultimately it's probably better for North America society if we eventually move away from fossil fuels, when it is economically viable to do so. But no matter what consumers do, corporations still profit from it, it's just a question of which corporations.

I do agree that comparing global warming to Y2K wasn't too bright. For one thing, Y2K was actually a real problem (even though the mass media blew it way out of proportion), and we got through it thanks to the hard work and sleepless nights of thousands of dedicated programmers. We needed no special evidence for the Y2K issues because we built those systems and knew exactly what could go wrong. But as Orko also pointed out, Y2K was an *expense* for just about every company, not a revenue source.

And Jamie, Al Gore invented the internet so he's obviously the most reliable source.


___________________
My party schedule:
2009-02-21 - DJ Attention @ I'm So Popular
2009-06-18 - DJ Annoying @ People Need To Know Where I'll Be
2012-11-32 - DJ Insufferable ɸ Or At Least the Stalkers I Complain About
2048-06-66 - Spastic & Whocares Although I'm Actually Flattered
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Old Post Aug-14-2007 00:57  Canada
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RobotHouse
CHEESE IT!



Registered: Mar 2007
Location: Hamilton/Toronto

quote:
Originally posted by DigiNut
The rebates on energy saving appliances are subsidized by the government. Ergo, we actually pay for them. Think of it as environmental welfare. The companies who make them still get paid in full, and the energy-savers are usually more expensive than the pigs.



The new light bulbs and appliances actually consume less energy and your bill per month is significantly lower because of it.

Old Post Aug-14-2007 01:35  Canada
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Spike
RUN GO! GET TO THE CHOPPA



Registered: May 2003
Location: Markham, ON, Canada

so lets say then al gore is wrong and IS just trying to scare us and is in the buiseness of making money for himself, does that mean we just go buckwild and pump as much co2 into the air and waste as much energy as we can?


___________________
"The only monster here is the gambling monster that has enslaved your mother! I call him Gamblor, and it's time to snatch your mother from his neon claws!" - homer

Old Post Aug-14-2007 01:45  Croatia
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Cosmic Fur
Debbie Downer



Registered: Jan 2005
Location: Mississauga, Canada

quote:
Originally posted by Spike
so lets say then al gore is wrong and IS just trying to scare us and is in the buiseness of making money for himself, does that mean we just go buckwild and pump as much co2 into the air and waste as much energy as we can?

Right. Because proving something is not happening means we're all going to do the exact opposite. Brilliant logic.


___________________
I'm the trouble starter, fuckin' instigator.
I'm the fear-addicted, danger illustrated.

Old Post Aug-14-2007 01:57  Canada
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RobotHouse
CHEESE IT!



Registered: Mar 2007
Location: Hamilton/Toronto

It's the only way to stick it to them.

Old Post Aug-14-2007 01:57  Canada
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spolitta
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Jun 2004
Location:

Fuck Al Gore and every other single politician around the globe,It doesn't matter if the GW is real or not, the earth needs a better care and some folks are just too ignorant to understand.

Old Post Aug-14-2007 02:01 
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DigiNut
You kids get off my lawn!



Registered: Dec 2002
Location: Toronto, Self-proclaimed Centre of the Universe

quote:
Originally posted by RobotHouse
The new light bulbs and appliances actually consume less energy and your bill per month is significantly lower because of it.

Don't even try to talk to me about conservation, buddy. I work in the sub-metering (AKA smart metering) business. Landlords and property managers ("corporations") - the ones who are supposedly always trying to screw you - LOVE this and want it in all of their buildings. Tenants, especially in low-income or subsidized housing, hate it, and seem to think it's some sort of trick, even though over 10 years of data analysis have clearly shown that it reduces the average person's bill by at least 30%, and by extension reduces the consumption of the entire building by that much.

The actual payback time for Compact Fluorescents, if you don't count government rebates, is on the order of about 7 years. Sure, they'll reduce your consumption by a little bit, but lighting isn't where people use the most. It's HVAC systems and major appliances (washer/dryer, dishwasher, hot water heater, etc.) that draw all the power. CFs are a joke; a trivial investment for a trivial payback, unless they give you migraines, which is the case for a lot of people, and I can tell you those people aren't too happy that they'll be getting forced to buy them in the near future.

So we force people to buy fluorescent lights, which inconveniences tons of people and will save maybe 3% of total energy usage, if that, but the Ontario government has now backpedaled 4 times on the smart metering legislation (condos now don't have to do it, and rental buildings still have to get permission from the tenants).

This is something that can and does make a real, measurable impact on the power grid, for an extremely obvious reason: people have to pay for their power. Environmentalists would rather play around with useless diversions like CF lights and hybrid vehicles than actually change their habits or deal directly with rising energy costs. It's much easier to preach than it is to act.

You want to know who's at fault for energy waste? It's not the corporations, it's the politicians and it's Joe Sixpack living in his crappy downtown apartment. It's you and me, and not because of our cars, but because we like coming home to our toasty living rooms in the winter and leave the heat on all day because it's more convenient that way.

If you really want to be eco-friendly, then just turn shit off when you're not using it. Set your desktop to suspend or hibernate. Don't use the hottest setting for your laundry or in the shower. Set your HVAC system on a timer to kick in an hour before you get up or get home. Use the dryer for half a cycle and hang your clothes for the rest. Wait for your dishwasher to get full instead of doing it every night, and if you need one utensil the next day, wash it by hand. Close your windows when you've got the A/C blasting, and blast it to a sane temperature, not 12° C. This is really easy shit to do and anybody can do it.

Don't buy a hybrid car and drive 50,000 extra km because you think you're being "green", or buy a bunch of CFs and leave your lights on all day because you think you're conserving. You aren't. You're exacerbating the problem, not helping it, because you're convincing yourself and others that you don't have to change your lifestyle as long as you buy the right shit. The only people that helps is - you guessed it - the corporations selling it.


___________________
My party schedule:
2009-02-21 - DJ Attention @ I'm So Popular
2009-06-18 - DJ Annoying @ People Need To Know Where I'll Be
2012-11-32 - DJ Insufferable ɸ Or At Least the Stalkers I Complain About
2048-06-66 - Spastic & Whocares Although I'm Actually Flattered
9999-45-81 - Tweaker Gimp I Probably Won't Even Go To This But I Have To Make Sure I Fill Up All The Available Space Here

Old Post Aug-14-2007 02:39  Canada
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TranceAddict Forums > Local Scene Info / Discussion / EDM Event Listings > Canada > Canada - Toronto & Southern Ont. > Globalwarming, Fact or Theory???
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