quote:

Originally posted by LatinLover MisterOpus1, I told you I wont waste my time with you, engaging in a debate with you is like feeling stupid.

Apparently you don't need my help in that category.

But even if that were true, by replying right now are you not contradicting yourself?

quote:

You are hopeless!

Funny, I was about to say the same thing about your argument, considering you haven't supported it with any verifiable evidence up to this point.

quote:

Michael Moore's film have clouded your mind, you are hopeless.

I'm wondering if it would come as a surprise to you that I never really cared much for that guy?

What is it with your fixation with Michael Moore? Have I brought him up with any of my points or references so far?

Are you actually going to try to debate in good faith and cease with the Hannity/Limbaugh asinine sweeping generalizations yet?

quote:

Please come out of the dark and see the light.

Alright then, enlighten me. What parts do you disagree with that I have said thus far? Be specific, and support your answers with evidence.

quote:

I dont need to go to websites like you do; you chose leftist writers that all they do is bash Bush.

You realize you just created a common ad hominem logical fallacy, right?

All examples I have cited are supported by evidence. In my previous posts I cited polls from various different sources including your favorite poll, Rasmussen, and I cited well-documented investigations from the Washington Post, NYTimes, and AP press that are to this point unrefuted by this Administration or anyone else for a simple reason - they are based on our current intelligence.

Now, the sources I did cite that are what you may call "biased" are:

1. Glenn Greenwald (http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/...-terrorism.html), who if you go to the website he has you will see in his story that he cites well-known documents and stories to support his point.

2. American Progress (http://www.americanprogress.org/iss...les/b24889.html), which again if you go to that website will find all points made about this Administration's efforts to ignore any counterevidence against their claims on WMDs supported by well-known documents (and links to those documents and stories).

3. Seymour Hersh (http://www.newyorker.com/archive/20...7/031027fa_fact), who's reputation is well-known for his breakout stories back in Vietnam and has multiple inside connections in this and previous Administrations.

4. Downing Street Memo (http://www.downingstreetmemo.org), which the memo itself is undeniable even to this Administration.

5. Center for Budget and Policy Priorities (http://www.cbpp.org), which is a left-leaning group but the information they cite comes from the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO).

Now, if you have something SPECIFIC to argue about here in regards to the sources I cite, then support your point against mine with evidence.

Otherwise, stop wasting my time.

quote:

All my facts are in my brain I dont need to echo what other people say. Ill challenge you to a live debate and make sure you take your laptop with you so you can have a chance

I live in Lawrence, Kansas. If you're truly interested in that, I'm more than willing to make time after my finals week, which will be the third week of May. Please PM me if you're interested.

Otherwise, do me and everyone else here a favor, debate in good faith HERE with supporting evidence for your points and stop wasting my time.

quote:

My overall point: The Dems are a joke,

I'm sure glad it's because you say so. And you've supported that point oh so well thus far.

Wait, no you haven't.

quote:

they have the majority in congress, they havent done shit. All they do is play hard ball with the President. They are fill with empty promises, you said that in Nov. Americans voted for change right? Okay... we see that change going on in our strategic military approach. AMERICANS DID NOT VOTE FOR FAILURE= WITHDRAWAL

Uhh, Americans voted to get us the hell out of Iraq, champ. Sorry to keep breaking that news to you, but the polls and the votes clearly demonstrate that.

As for what the Democrats have and have not done, I spoke about this in a previous post here, so scroll back and re-read it. Just because they haven't voted on things that our dear dipshit leader won't agree on and will likely veto doesn't mean they haven't done anything. The burden does not lie on them since they are doing what the majority of Americans want.

Do you understand this simple logic?

Try for me. Try read hard. Congress votes for things that the people want. The President will likely veto those things because he doesn't like them. But for some reason, YOU blame Congress for not doing shit?

I must say, you're not doing a very good job with your argument here, champ. You really need to consider some simple debating skills before blabbing your mouth off here. And as I said before, the best place for you to start is to support your arguments with evidence.

Otherwise, stop wasting my fucking time, please.

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

quote:

Originally posted by Jake Benson Yeah tell me about it. Maybe I need to learn your Arabic language so you can better understand me.

Sure, whatever.

quote:

Originally posted by Jake Benson Rather obvious from you posts? Not really. You went on so many tangents and still haven't answered my questions. But if you say you are neutral, I guess I have no choice but to just drop the subject, except with the less-than-nautral tone you gave throughout your posts, such as calling my issues stupid and trivial. Fyi, that's not a nautral tone, that makes you smell like a slut-crusted total-un-neutral bitch.

I feel no need to ease your curiosity or feed your insecurities, especially considering the way you're acting. I considered answering your questions earlier, but now I certainly don't feel like it.

quote:

Originally posted by Jake Benson Buuuuuuut I understand my tone was harsh to begin with and I apologize for that.

Harsh? No, more like offensive. I've been guilty of that in the past so I won't rip on you for that.

quote:

Originally posted by Jake Benson I'm not disagreeing with you.

Ok.

quote:

Originally posted by Jake Benson Really? They're simple Yes/No questions. Or do you not like the questions because they are direct and you can't run around them with passive talk and tangents? Common, answer the questions. I wanna know how much of a bigot you really are.

Right. What exactly makes me a bigot again?

quote:

Originally posted by Jake Benson I'll post them again for you: 1. Overall, do you support what Ron Paul did (refer to ALL 5 of my points on page 1 or page 7)? If you support some but not all of what he did, please explain WHY. 3. Do you think that gay people are entitled to every equal right that you as a heterosexual Muslim have? 3a. Do you think gay people should have the right to get married? If not, do you think they are entitled to an alternative, but equal status (i.e. civil unions)? 3b. Do you think that gay people should be allowed to serve openly gay in the military. 3c. Do you think that on top of gender, creed, race, ethnicity (and others I'm forgetting), the gov't should add "sexual orientation" to the list of what NOT to discriminate against in the work place? 3d. If someone is physically attacked based solely on the fact that they are gay, do you consider it a hate crime? If not, do you consider any attack based on race/ethnity a hate crime? 3e. Do you think people should be denied the right to adopt based on their sexual orientation? 4. If I were to have my way and gay people would magically be granted all equal rights, would we be arguing in this thread? 5. (Open question, you don't have to answer yes-no-other here) Whose fault do you think it is that gay people don't have equal rights? Gay people (like me)? Republicans (like Ron Paul)? Or other?

If you want/wanted me to answer your questions, perhaps you should have reconsidered your tone. Make whatever assumptions you want about me, your assuming so doesn't make them valid. This is exactly why I didn't want to get in to this conversation in the first place. Most people tend to make all these stupid assumptions followed by equally irrelevant conclusions, when you have a different opinion that the one they're culturally indoctrinated with that is. I suggest you change your tone if you interested in dicussing this any further.

EDIT: BTW, you do realize how far off topic you've gotton?

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

Last edited by shaolin_Z on Apr-30-2007 at 15:34

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z The end of the preemptive war policy and fradulent war on terror.

+1

quote:

Roll back tyrannical and totally unconstituional legislation, the Partriot Act, Military Commisions Act, and Detainee Bills particularly.

+1

quote:

Possibly (and hopefully) abolish the Federal Resrerve and IRS.

Damn son, you had me for a second.... no, as long as daddy makes the ducks with the IRS, then hell no!!

quote:

Stop expansion of the executive bransh which by now literally has dictorial powers.

+1

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z I feel no need to ease your curiosity or feed your insecurities, especially considering the way you're acting. I considered answering your questions earlier, but now I certainly don't feel like it.

Instead of defending your tone, you're pinning the problem on my personality? Nice beat-around-the-Bush answer, ass.

So if you ask me "Do you think slavery is okay" and I answer "Well, you know, I don't like how you look at me so I'm not going to answer that question," do you think I really don't like slavery, or really don't want to answer the question because I do like slavery but know you'll flame me if I answer truthfully and directly?

quote:

Right. What exactly makes me a bigot again?

Oh I dunno, maybe the fact that you didn't answer ANY of my questions, but rather diverted the attention from the fact that you couldn't answer them to my "tone" which obviously justifies any answer you won't give...such as this one:

quote:

If you want/wanted me to answer your questions, perhaps you should have reconsidered your tone. Make whatever assumptions you want about me, your assuming so doesn't make them valid.

If you really had anything to prove, that you weren't as anti-gay as I (correctly) assume you are, then you would have answered. That's like a perpetrator saying "Sorry judge, I won't tell you whether killing is wrong because you are pointing a gavel at me and I get offended by that."

The million dollar question is: Can a Muslim answer a question with a direct answer? Find out at next Shaolin_Z post.

quote:

This is exactly why I didn't want to get in to this conversation in the first place.

Because I ask you too many direct questions?

quote:

Most people tend to make all these stupid assumptions

Stupid assumptions ...where you don't give any direct answers to my questions but blame my "tone"? You didn't answer any of the questions, and that totally reinforces my assumptions. Who is stupid now? *points index finger at youuuuuuuu*

quote:

followed by equally irrelevant conclusions, when you have a different opinion that the one they're culturally indoctrinated with that is.

Wait what are you saying here?

quote:

I suggest you change your tone if you interested in dicussing this any further.

I suggest you start answering my questions with direct answers. Otherwise, I will ask the same questions over and over and stick to the same subject until you give me a direct answer. Are you capable of that yet? Are you going to change your tone with me? Or when I ask you a question you fear will expose your true tone, you'll find a scape-goat answer that completely avoids the question?

quote:

EDIT: BTW, you do realize how far off topic you've gotton?

How far? I've questioned your candidate's views on gay civil rights, and also yours. Neither of you can answer, but go off on how my rights are trivial and how my "tone" doesn't warrant a direct answer. What a tangent!

___________________
www.facebook.com/DigitalSixable
www.soundcloud.com/DigitalSixable

Last edited by Jake Benson on May-06-2007 at 22:34

Metalgearsolid...lol...your answers cracked me up!

quote:

You will never have the same rights as blacks do until you make a movement demanding to be equal. Gays have a lot of spending power more than the minorities(separtely) do. So stop buying and see how businesses start to hurt and watch them support you so that you guys now start buying their products.

Yeah, when I speak my mind about gay civil rights, people like Shaolin_Z chastize me for pointing it out a major anti-gay characteristic in his political hero. I guess I'll have to up my tone into a movement and start a gay parade outside Shaolin_Z's mosque.

Gay people have more expendable income than black people, and that's like 2-4% versus 12% of Americans respectively.

___________________
www.facebook.com/DigitalSixable
www.soundcloud.com/DigitalSixable

quote:

Originally posted by Jake Benson Instead of defending your tone,

I don't need to.

quote:

Originally posted by Jake Benson you're pinning the problem on my personality?

You're doing that all by yourself.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

Hillary&Barack.



funny but not that funny.

quote:

Originally posted by Shaolin_Z quote: Originally posted by Jake Benson Instead of defending your tone, I don't need to.

Because instead of actually defending your answer, and sticking to the actual argument, you avoided my questions by attacking my character. Typical Muslim.

quote:

Originally posted by Shaolin_Z quote: Originally posted by Jake Benson you're pinning the problem on my personality? You're doing that all by yourself.

Uh no, special_Z. I asked you questions, and you failed to answer. How is this a flaw in my personality?

Answer the questions Shaolin_Z. I'll post them 3 third time for your homophobic ass and will continue to repost until you finally answer.

1. Overall, do you support what Ron Paul did below? If you support some but not all of what he did, please explain WHY.

quote:

(1) Rep. John Conyers, D-Mich., offered an amendment to the Child Safety Act (H.R. 3132), adding the provisions of the HRC-supported Local Law Enforcement Hate Crimes Prevention Act which would give the federal government jurisdiction to help local law enforcement confront hate violence based on sexual orientation, gender identity, gender and disability. Ron Paul voted NO. (2) Members of Congress were asked to co-sponsor legislation introduced May 26, 2005, that would expand federal jurisdiction to reach serious, violent hate crimes perpetrated because of the “actual or perceived race, color, religion, national origin, sexual orientation, gender, gender identity or disability” of the victim. As of Sept. 29, 2006, the measure had 160 co-sponsors: Democrats 149; Republicans 10; Independents 1. Ron Paul voted NO. (3) Members of Congress were asked to co-sponsor legislation that would repeal "Don't Ask, Don't Tell," the ban on gay, lesbian and bisexual service people, and allow them to serve openly in the military. Ron Paul didn't co-sponsor this. (4) Members of Congress were asked to co-sponsor legislation (formerly called the Permanent Partners Immigration Act) introduced June 21, 2005, that would amend the Immigration and Nationality Act to provide same-sex partners of U.S. citizens and lawful permanent residents the same immigration benefits legal spouses of U.S. residents enjoy. Ron Paul didn't co-sponsor this.

2. If Ron Paul were to do all of the above, but were to replace each word "gay" with "Muslim," would you support his decision?

3. Do you think that gay people are entitled to every equal right that you as a heterosexual Muslim have?

3a. Do you think gay people should have the right to get married? If not, do you think they are entitled to an alternative, but equal status (i.e. civil unions)?

3b. Do you think that gay people should be allowed to serve openly gay in the military.

3c. Do you think that on top of gender, creed, race, ethnicity (and others I'm forgetting), the gov't should add "sexual orientation" to the list of what NOT to discriminate against in the work place?

3d. If someone is physically attacked based solely on the fact that they are gay, do you consider it a hate crime? If not, do you consider any attack based on race/ethnity a hate crime?

3e. Do you think people should be denied the right to adopt based on their sexual orientation?

4. If I were to have my way and gay people would magically be granted all equal rights, would we be arguing in this thread?

5. (Open question, you don't have to answer yes-no-other here)
Whose fault do you think it is that gay people don't have equal rights? Gay people (like me)? Republicans (like Ron Paul)? Or other?

Btw, I know you won't answer these questions because you obviously have some major issues with homosexuals that you want to hide.

___________________
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www.soundcloud.com/DigitalSixable

Last edited by Jake Benson on May-08-2007 at 23:31

Yes, Z, hates gays. He's a muslim. They are like three hundred years behind in social thinking from the rest of the world.