quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus What do you mean religious extremists? Must "settlers" are sub-urban Jerusalemites who have crossed your artificial 1967 borders due to a common phenomena called "population growth" or "urban sprawl". I by all means would agree with removing desolate and ridiculous settlements in the middle of no where. The truth of the matter is most "settlements" are part of cities now. Its a very small country.

1967 borders aren't illegal.
Israel is originated by terror and war crimes

quote:

I don't think that is true. I think Israel has and is always willing to make hard compromises for a real peace. However there has never been a real peace prospect. Those countries where there was such a prospect now have peace with Israel.

-1
There's the arabian peace initiative from 1996,waiting for ur peace.

quote:

It got them back from exile so they could start up the terror war and propaganda machine, they created a cult state where the PLO leaders are no reviled as some mythical great founders, and they have also greatly enriched themselves through the opprotunity. Much better then being in some stinky tent in the middle of Africa in my book.

hmmmmmm.

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Last edited by M.Johan on Jun-10-2007 at 09:23

quote:

Originally posted by M.Johan 1967 borders aren't illegal. Israel is originated by terror and war crimes

I could say similarly:
Israel's borders aren't illegal.
Palestinians originated by terror and war crimes.

Or:
Syria's borders aren't illegal.
Syria originated by terror and war crimes.

Ah why note:
Europe's borders aren't illegal.
Europe originated by terror and war crimes.

This logical fallacy is so exciting I can go on and on... but what's the point, there's no source, no proof, no backing up to your claim...

quote:

-1 There's the arabian peace initiative from 1996,waiting for ur peace.

Which one is that again?

quote:

hmmmmmm.

Actually you are wrong, its quiet a well known fact from the 1890s afterall, that the Jews really are trying to take over the whole world!
source


And just to through this thread back on topic; all this of course justifies brainwashing 5 years old into a cult of death, murder, and destruction. Horray!

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quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus And just to through this thread back on topic; all this of course justifies brainwashing 5 years old into a cult of death, murder, and destruction. Horray!

It would be advantageous for those who wish to justify Israel's policy decisions and actions to explain why 5 year olds are being brainwashed to hate a nation and it's people simply by passing it off as some kind of "natural" hatred, when in actual fact I think everybody deep down knows that the bombs and the death and the disruption to their lives they experience everyday is a more valid explanation...

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus I could say similarly: Israel's borders aren't illegal. Palestinians originated by terror and war crimes. Or: Syria's borders aren't illegal. Syria originated by terror and war crimes. Ah why note: Europe's borders aren't illegal. Europe originated by terror and war crimes.

In one word:

"We created terror among the Arabs and all the villages around. In one blow, we changed the strategic situation."

the Israeli prime minister in 1977
Menachem Begin

The Source

quote:

This logical fallacy is so exciting I can go on and on... but what's the point, there's no source, no proof, no backing up to your claim... Which one is that again?

United Nations Security Council Resolution 242 (S/RES/242) was adopted unanimously by the UN Security Council on November 22, 1967 in the aftermath of the Six Day War. It was adopted under Chapter VI of the United Nations Charter.[1] The resolution was drafted by British ambassador Lord Caradon and was one of five drafts under consideration.[2]

It calls for "the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East" to be achieved by "the application of both the following principles:""Withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict" (see semantic dispute) and: "Termination of all claims or states of belligerency" and respect for the right of every state in the area to live in peace within secure and recognised boundaries. Egypt, Jordan, Israel and Lebanon entered into consultations with the UN Special representative over the implementation of 242.[3] After denouncing it in 1967, Syria "conditionally" accepted the resolution in March 1972. Syria formally accepted[4] UN Security Council Resolution 338, the cease-fire at the end of the Yom Kippur War, which embraced resolution 242.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United..._Resolution_242

quote:

The Arab Peace Initiative, 2002 Official translation of the full text of a Saudi-inspired peace plan adopted by the Arab summit in Beirut, 2002. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Arab Peace Initiative The Council of Arab States at the Summit Level at its 14th Ordinary Session, Reaffirming the resolution taken in June 1996 at the Cairo Extra-Ordinary Arab Summit that a just and comprehensive peace in the Middle East is the strategic option of the Arab countries, to be achieved in accordance with international legality, and which would require a comparable commitment on the part of the Israeli government, Having listened to the statement made by his royal highness Prince Abdullah bin Abdul Aziz, crown prince of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, in which his highness presented his initiative calling for full Israeli withdrawal from all the Arab territories occupied since June 1967, in implementation of Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338, reaffirmed by the Madrid Conference of 1991 and the land-for-peace principle, and Israel's acceptance of an independent Palestinian state with East Jerusalem as its capital, in return for the establishment of normal relations in the context of a comprehensive peace with Israel, Emanating from the conviction of the Arab countries that a military solution to the conflict will not achieve peace or provide security for the parties, the council: 1. Requests Israel to reconsider its policies and declare that a just peace is its strategic option as well. 2. Further calls upon Israel to affirm: I- Full Israeli withdrawal from all the territories occupied since 1967, including the Syrian Golan Heights, to the June 4, 1967 lines as well as the remaining occupied Lebanese territories in the south of Lebanon. II- Achievement of a just solution to the Palestinian refugee problem to be agreed upon in accordance with U.N. General Assembly Resolution 194. III- The acceptance of the establishment of a sovereign independent Palestinian state on the Palestinian territories occupied since June 4, 1967 in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, with East Jerusalem as its capital. 3. Consequently, the Arab countries affirm the following: I- Consider the Arab-Israeli conflict ended, and enter into a peace agreement with Israel, and provide security for all the states of the region. II- Establish normal relations with Israel in the context of this comprehensive peace. 4. Assures the rejection of all forms of Palestinian patriation which conflict with the special circumstances of the Arab host countries. 5. Calls upon the government of Israel and all Israelis to accept this initiative in order to safeguard the prospects for peace and stop the further shedding of blood, enabling the Arab countries and Israel to live in peace and good neighbourliness and provide future generations with security, stability and prosperity. 6. Invites the international community and all countries and organisations to support this initiative. 7. Requests the chairman of the summit to form a special committee composed of some of its concerned member states and the secretary general of the League of Arab States to pursue the necessary contacts to gain support for this initiative at all levels, particularly from the United Nations, the Security Council, the United States of America, the Russian Federation, the Muslim states and the European Union. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- For purposes of comparison, the following is an earlier draft discussed by Arab foreign ministers on 25 March, 2002, in advance of the summit: The Council of the Arab League, which convenes at the level of a summit on March 27-28, 2002 in Beirut, affirms the Arab position that achieving just and comprehensive peace is a strategic choice and goal for the Arab states. After the Council heard the statement of Crown Prince Abdullah bin Abdul Aziz in which he called for the establishment of normal relations in the context of a comprehensive peace with Israel, and that Israel declares its readiness to withdraw from the occupied Arab territories in compliance with United Nations resolutions 242 and 338 and Security Council resolution 1397, enhanced by the Madrid conference and the land-for-peace principle, and the acceptance of an independent, sovereign Palestinian state with al-Quds al-Sharif as its capital, the Council calls on the Israeli government to review its policy and to resort to peace while declaring that just peace is its strategic option. The Council also calls on Israel to assert the following: Complete withdrawal from the Arab territories occupied since 1967, including full withdrawal from the occupied Syrian Golan Heights and the remaining occupied parts of south Lebanon to the June 4, 1967 lines. To accept to find an agreed, just solution to the problem of Palestinian refugees in conformity with Resolution 194. To accept an independent and sovereign Palestinian state on the Palestinian lands occupied since June 4, 1967 in the West Bank and Gaza Strip and with Jerusalem (al-Quds al-Sharif) as its capital in accordance with Security Council Resolution 1397. In return, the Arab states assert the following: To consider the Arab-Israeli conflict over and to enter into a peace treaty with Israel to consolidate this. To achieve comprehensive peace for all the states of the region. To establish normal relations within the context of comprehensive peace with Israel. The Council calls on the Israeli government and the Israelis as a whole to accept this initiative to protect the prospects of peace and to spare bloodshed so as to enable the Arab states and Israel to coexist side by side and to provide for the coming generations a secure, stable and prosperous future. It calls on the international community with all its organisations and states to support the initiative. The Council calls on its presidency, its secretary general and its follow-up committee to follow up on the special contacts related to this initiative and to support it on all levels, including the United Nations, the United States, Russia, the European Union and the Security Council.

The Source

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus Actually you are wrong, its quiet a well known fact from the 1890s afterall, that the Jews really are trying to take over the whole world! source And just to through this thread back on topic; all this of course justifies brainwashing 5 years old into a cult of death, murder, and destruction. Horray!

Not away from the topic bec. in Israel there's the same hatred teachings to the Israeli children against the arabs in their studing textbooks
read the zionism ideology by shaolin_Z

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quote:

Originally posted by M.Johan In one word: "We created terror among the Arabs and all the villages around. In one blow, we changed the strategic situation." the Israeli prime minister in 1977 Menachem Begin

¨it all began with Begin¨

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley It would be advantageous for those who wish to justify Israel's policy decisions and actions to explain why 5 year olds are being brainwashed to hate a nation and it's people simply by passing it off as some kind of "natural" hatred, when in actual fact I think everybody deep down knows that the bombs and the death and the disruption to their lives they experience everyday is a more valid explanation...

Right your explanation obviously hits the nail on the head, because we see other severely oppressed people around the world behaving in the exact same brutal and inhuman matter

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quote:

Originally posted by M.Johan In one word: "We created terror among the Arabs and all the villages around. In one blow, we changed the strategic situation."

Actually that is two sentences.

quote:

the Israeli prime minister in 1977 Menachem Begin The Source

Your source does not have a source stating where/when Menachem Begin supposedly said this statement. For all we know it is most likely very much made up.

All references on the internet I could find reference the same unreferenced source you quoted.


Of course if I say:

"We are fighting a war against an evil religion that must be won. -George Bush 2006"

People will believe it even though it was never said. Perhaps there in lies the problem with most aspect of this conflict. The truth doesn't matter.

quote:

The Source

Ya, that was the 2002 initiative; not 1996 which you claimed earlier.

quote:

Not away from the topic bec. in Israel there's the same hatred teachings to the Israeli children against the arabs in their studing textbooks

Prove it, show me similar vidoe of Israeli kindergardners.
Israel does not teach its kids violence in schools, quiet the opposite. I can tell you I was brainwashed with dreams of peace and humanity through the Israeli education system; most everyone I know who went for will tell you the same.

But please, show me with some real facts, not some made up conjectuor that Israelis are as guilty in filling their children's minds with hate, brutality, and destruction.
read the zionism ideology by shaolin_Z [/QUOTE]

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quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus Right your explanation obviously hits the nail on the head, because we see other severely oppressed people around the world behaving in the exact same brutal and inhuman matter

What's that got to do with it? Some rise up, some don't...

Tell me, would you have justified the Jews rising up and committing acts of "terrorism" against the Nazi state?

In fact I'm pretty sure I've heard you justifying the actions of Stern and Irgun etc on here before haven't I?

You have also stood up for the settlers on here many a time and they are as big a bunch of thugs you're likely to meet.

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley But the EU has stopped funding the PA (when Hamas got elected) and as far as I am aware there has been a severe lack of funds leading to wages not being paid for all walks of public life en mass, which would suggest the Arab countries have failed to come to the Palestinians aid as you suggest (and don't forget, barring Syria, the rest of the Arab states are on side with Israel so the only other source of funding would come from rogue Saudi Princes, Syria or possibly Iran, and I'm not sure they can match the financial clout of the EU and America)

The other Arab nations don't want even more unstable Middle East, esp. when it might give extremists in their own nations get all riled up and make trouble. Apparently SA is having some of these problems right now.
Combined with Western pressure to not give Palestinians any aid, I think that's what stopped the funding from going to Hamas.

But that is in the short term.

In the long term, it benefits Arab nations to have Israel busy with Palestinian troubles, so I don't think Arab nations would have let Hamas or any other Palestinian govt crumble.

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quote:

Originally posted by chinamon not true. i say "ugh" but i am a tranny.

quote:

Originally posted by kotsy lol colour me retarded

quote:

Originally posted by EvilTree In the long term, it benefits Arab nations to have Israel busy with Palestinian troubles, so I don't think Arab nations would have let Hamas or any other Palestinian govt crumble.

In what way would that benefit the Arab nations?

And what evidence do you have to suggest the Arab nations will start to bank roll the PA, when everything that has actually happened suggests otherwise?

Can you quote government officials where they state the policy you have suggested?

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley In what way would that benefit the Arab nations? And what evidence do you have to suggest the Arab nations will start to bank roll the PA, when everything that has actually happened suggests otherwise? Can you quote government officials where they state the policy you have suggested?

Israel is the most hated nation, probably even more than US in Middle East, yes?

Some nations have proven to back up terrorist/extremist nations, yes? Iran with Hezbollah, PLO I believe had Libya as backers before, etc.
Someone is still shipping weapons to PLO and Hamas nowadays, somehow. It's just no one really said who's behind that.

IIRC Al Jazeera poll said something like 50% of Arabs think Osama bin Laden is a cool guy. Imagine how many would support actions against Israel!

BTW, here's an article with Saudi foreign minister saying that SA will give money to Hamas for humanitarian reason.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4742078.stm

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quote:

Originally posted by chinamon not true. i say "ugh" but i am a tranny.

quote:

Originally posted by kotsy lol colour me retarded