There really is no image to sell. I think that's what us yanks tend to like. Look at all the top 40 artists, they all look like tough guys, handsome men, beautiful women who are young.

quote:

Originally posted by DJLafleur Im from america so im mostly talking about american culture(i know trance/Electronica is more mainstream in europe). When i say mainstream i mean MTV mainstream,Style Mainstream. I cant even figure out how Hip Hop/Rap is Favored in the mainstream its not music to me. Well heres the question. when will trance become mainstream in america?

I think the reason why dance music, not nessicarily "trance", isnt dominating the mainstream is due to something that happened with MTV a long time ago. MTV (America's leading influence on musical taste before the internet, lol) was promoting dance music (in its most popular vocal form) through music videos, specialty shows like club mtv, the grind, etc. At some point, MTV shifted focus to hip hop and as demand grew hip hop BECAME dance music in America and those shows either changed musical format or eventually disappeared. I believe hip hop's advantage against house, techno, freestyle, etc was that it had a definite image and subculture, ones that Americans at the time (with gang violence at its peak) could more easily relate to and imitate.

So all these years house techno trance etc remained in the underground with very few exceptions like really hooky vocal dance tracks, remixes, and edm songs on car commercials which usually ended up as ringtones, not album sales. Very few forward thinking electronic acts reached the American mainstream, if they did it was because they either had a really cool or fucked up video for the song (aphex twin come to daddy, daft punk around the world, prodigy smack my bitch up) or in a movie soundtrack (spawn etc). MTV actually tried to make some sort of effort to expose some not-so-mainstream artists but that failed miserably in the form of MTV AMP. It was too late, raves had reached America, and electronic dance music in America was forever doomed as "drug music".

I personally love hip hop, everything from underground Anticon type stuff to the most cheesy Nelly or what have you. Somehow I was able to like both hip hop and electronic dance music simultaneously. It always baffled me why the rest of my friends stuck to their hip hop, rock, and pop but could never enjoy edm the same as me.

I think now the problem is, and some of you may laugh but hear me out, Americans dont actually know how or feel comfortable dancing to electronic dance music. I cant tell you how many times Ive played a small local gig in New Orleans or Chicago and had someone tell me "I cant dance to this, do you have any 50 Cent?" Obviously hip hop is still the dance music of America.

On the other hand, I spent a few days in Amsterdam a couple of weeks ago and every single music television station was playing dance music all day long with bits of hip hop thrown in. it was everything from old classic dance music to new, from annoying to cutting edge. Thats when this whole MTV concept dawned on me.

Now America is stuck with this stagnating hip hop monster that it created. America was so demanding of it that almost all innovation has ceased to exist in the genre, its been sucked dry and oversaturated. I read articles in Source and XXL all the time, interviews with hip hop artists that say its just dead. Fuck, wasn't the name of Nas's last album 'Hip Hop is Dead'? But it seems alot of people feel the same about all forms of electronic dance music all over the world. People say its trance thats dead, but if you ask househeads they will tell you the same thing. Im not totally convinced that any of its dead, maybe a slump, but nostalgic tracks from the past always sound best. Im sure I will feel the same way I do about Xpander as I do say Faxing Berlin ...Music is a great time capsule. While the musical elements are what make the track "good", its the memories associated with the track and your distance in time from them that make them truly something special.

It seems that the internet is blurring the lines more and more between what is mainstream and what is underground these days. MTV has been playing the Real World 24 hours a day for the past 7 years. I do hope to some extent electronic dance music does enter the American "mainstream", whatever that may be.

___________________
Click Here to Subscribe to the Blake Jarrell Concentrate Podcast

Last edited by Blake_Jarrell on Jul-25-2007 at 07:00

nice post and cool idea



hiphop definitely is here to stay tho. its definitely too ingrained into society nowadays


i agree with people not knowing how to dance to EDM and feel uncomfortable... i brought my sister and her friends along with my friends to a club one time in Pacha NYC when Sander Van Doorn was spinnin in Feb and she didnt know how to dance (thats what she said.... but dancing to it is quite easy... i think she was just uncomfortable) to it... she dances to hip hop tho

___________________
Sig removed - over max allowd height

quote:

Originally posted by WardC I have another note to make (I posted in this thread a few days back): The rave scene in America was finally starting to blossom circa 1998-2002, and HUGE parties were going off, every weekend, in every big metro area in the US. Although at that time dance music (as we know it here) was not making the radio mainstream yet, the scene was alive, and the underground culture was thriving. Big shows were happening, sometimes with 5,000 to even 20,000 attendees, and these were happening practically every weekend. Government intervention in the US led to crackdowns on promoters and specifically the 'rave' type parties, outdoor massives and such, and everything moved into the clubs, where it is in the USA today. But it's not the same...the scene is definately not the same as it was 6 or 7 years ago. That was the closest to mainsteam acceptance (of dance music) here in the states I have ever seen. Federal, state, and local agencies were put in charge of eliminating the 'raves' or outdoor massives, and for the most part, they have been successful. We don't see anything (party or event-wise) nearly as massive as what was happening back in 2000-ish, when everything was at its peak. Huge parties were happening in public venues then - I live in Texas - and in that time I saw Paul van Dyk play at Fair Park in 2002 in Dallas to a crowd of over 12,000, Carl Cox headlined an outdoor massive in Austin in 2000 with attendance near 17,000, parties were happening in Dallas, Fort Worth, Austin, and Houston at the same time - rave style massives with sometimes over 30 DJs performing. Tickets were on sale at the same places you would buy tickets for mainstream rock concerts - even at grocery stores you could buy tickets to some events. The music might never have been 'mainstream' - but at that time, the culture was at its peak - parties were happening. When it all went downhill around 2002 in the US, the scene stayed alive in Europe and it still doing very well today with huge massives like Loveparade, Sensation, Mayday, Gatecrasher Summer Festival, Dance Valley, and the huge summer parties in Ibiza. For the United States, there are a few events like Coachella and the parties of Winter Music Conference (Ultra) in Miami that are still happening, but it's only confined to a few cities. Everything for the most part is all in the clubs now, and only in the clubs. If you want to see a certain DJ/producer you will have to wait until he's on tour, visits your city, and go see him in a club. The festival/rave/outdoor massive days are pretty much over in the United States, as I see it. The result of this is less of an avenue for introducing people to the music, new people to the scene. In the past, we would take friends to raves, and the rave scene was the culture. With the death of the rave scene, died the culture, in many aspects. Going clubbing is not like going to a rave or an outdoor festival type event. The community/togetherness is practically lost, as I see it. The free-going nature and spirit of raving is gone, with everything going upscale, 21+, and club-only, 10pm-2am. It's just not the same. ...that's my take in on it - -Ward

I would just like to say a big FUCK YOU to the United States Government for that.

quote:

Originally posted by Blake_Jarrell Now America is stuck with this stagnating hip hop monster that it created.

Monster yes, but hip-hop monster........no. True hip hop: Krs One, Big Daddy Kane, Erik B & Rakim ...etc ...THIS was Hip hop. Very, VERY few artists in the last 5-10 years can be truly considered hip-hop .......Nas, Slick Rick, a few others. The MONSTER that was created was rap. Wether good or (for the most part) bad, rap has flooded the american airwaves ...and cheap knock offs or innovators (master p, etc) make it even worse........

quote:

Originally posted by Gillis maximus Monster yes, but hip-hop monster........no. True hip hop: Krs One, Big Daddy Kane, Erik B & Rakim ...etc ...THIS was Hip hop. Very, VERY few artists in the last 5-10 years can be truly considered hip-hop .......Nas, Slick Rick, a few others. The MONSTER that was created was rap. Wether good or (for the most part) bad, rap has flooded the american airwaves ...and cheap knock offs or innovators (master p, etc) make it even worse........

sorry i didnt intend for the blanket statement, i certainly know the difference, it was a quick forum post not a college thesis with an annotated bibliography

___________________
Click Here to Subscribe to the Blake Jarrell Concentrate Podcast

Just something I feel is a bit overlooked and should be realized, since we're talking about evil government misdeeds:

From Wikipedia:

quote:

On Thursday (April 10, 2003) the Senate and House passed [1] the Illicit Drug Anti-Proliferation Act (formerly known as the RAVE Act) as an attachment to the child abduction-related Amber Alert Bill. The language of the original act was changed slightly before the bill was passed without public hearing, debate or a vote.

How could the government turn down the RAVE Act as it was attached to the Amber Alert bill? Bullshit if you ask me...the article also mentions how it holds any promoter who's events have glow sticks and YES, bottled water, accountable. I hate this country.

Anyways, just wanted to mention as well that Blake, you've made a solid point and I'm glad you were able to articulate so well what some of us are thinking.
Cheers

___________________
http://www.djandrewgarcia.com

link to article? i would like a read

___________________
Sig removed - over max allowd height

Well written, Blake.

I agree with what Blake said. I see it that trance in and of itself besides psy..does not have an identifiable sub-culture. As non-psy trance (ala epic, prog and tech) is good because it seems to attract many different type of people (ravers, college kids, 20/30 something clubbers) but American music typically has had sub-culture followings (hippies, punks, grunge, goth, ravers, metal heads, hip hop etc).

If you look in Europe, there are many different people, like what you'll find at some trance nights in clubs and events in the US. The ravers to me..seem to gravitate towards psy and hard trance. The rave spirit seems to be what makes psy so popular, cause it's kept that, while epic and prog have gone slightly more mainstream if you will...ala large clubs with popular DJs and attracting some preppier or trendier types. So it's not the American mainstream, but trance is still quite mainstream amongst EDM, even in the US.

But as argued before on here constantly, it's arguable whether all of the "trance" is truly trance, because most of the time it's just euro-dance-pop music labeled as that, not the deeper, more hypnotic sound. Cascada is more accepted here than Vibrasphere's music (most I bet don't even know who they are). Americans just don't have the patience or depth to really appreciate more subtle or deeper music, they need instant gratification and stuff like Cascada with 3 minute songs with singing. It's the McDonald's culture vs. actually cooking a meal or sitting down at a restaurant and waiting.

Last edited by Spirit5 on Jul-25-2007 at 15:48

Looks like many people from the USA tend to overestimate the situation in Europe. The mainstream as you describe it is pretty much the same here, don't get a false idea.

___________________
"All revolutions are the sheerest fantasies until they happen; then they become historical inevitabilities."