quote:

Originally posted by Beat Blog I'd worded up a big aggressive response, then I realised that you'd actually said something sensible. Here's where the confusion lies: Over here, to my friends and I, and pretty much everyone I know, the term "progressive" is both an adjective, a noun and a genre name. This can be shortened to "prog" or "proggy"(adjective) with no change in meaning. If someone says "what genre is this song", by saying "progressive", 9 times out of 10, that would mean "progressive house". However, if the song was obviously trance, and you said "progressive", then that's the word acting as an adjective, describing the trance music as being "progressive", comprende? To us, "progressive" as an adjective, noun, or genre name doesn't mean "cutting edge", it means it has a more repetitive, subtle, deeper, entrancing, atmospheric sound to it, hence why it can be wacked on the front of any genre name and add meaning to it. i.e "atmospheric trance", "subtle house", "entrancing techno". In a nutshell, pretty much as John Digweed described it: I have no more to say on this subject. Can I just say, I have NO idea what you're talking about when you say "this rubbishy bandwagon crap" in relation to prog house, because most of it is so deep, with hardly any vocals and hardly any catchy hooks, that it will pretty much never be popular for the masses. Example of a prog house track I like at the moment: DJ Remy & Roland Klinkenberg - Mexico Can Wait p.s every time I see this thread, it pisses me off that some retard couldn't just go back and correct his own spelling. "progressice".

Oh wait.

Are they both ADjectives?

I'm so confused. I think both describe music. But an adjective qualifies a noun. Progressive in the innovative sense i think is an adverb, as it is qualifying a verb. DOING. PROGRESSING the genre/sound.

Even though I'm guilty to being part of some of them..this board has some of the silliest arguments I've ever seen..it's kinda funny. Just pointing that out. I get into the whole "what does this label mean" game too, but it drives me nuts just as anyone else....just plain stupidity. But anyways to join in on the argument..

It means both things from my point of view. There's music that does use "progressive structure"...where the song progresses over a long period of time, as a lot of trance does. Then there's "progressive" as far as things going forward...being more "progressive thinking" and added new elements like new sounds. I think if some people on here would just come to a consensus like that, seek the middle ground...there wouldn't be silly arguments like this. It's the same thing with politics...polarization...people being so one sided with their views.

quote:

Originally posted by Beat Blog Over here, to my friends and I, and pretty much everyone I know, the term "progressive" is both an adjective, a noun and a genre name. This can be shortened to "prog" or "proggy"(adjective) with no change in meaning. If someone says "what genre is this song", by saying "progressive", 9 times out of 10, that would mean "progressive house". However, if the song was obviously trance, and you said "progressive", then that's the word acting as an adjective, describing the trance music as being "progressive", comprende? To us, "progressive" as an adjective, noun, or genre name doesn't mean "cutting edge", it means it has a more repetitive, subtle, deeper, entrancing, atmospheric sound to it, hence why it can be wacked on the front of any genre name and add meaning to it. i.e "atmospheric trance", "subtle house", "entrancing techno". In a nutshell, pretty much as John Digweed described it: I have no more to say on this subject. Can I just say, I have NO idea what you're talking about when you say "this rubbishy bandwagon crap" in relation to prog house, because most of it is so deep, with hardly any vocals and hardly any catchy hooks, that it will pretty much never be popular for the masses. Example of a prog house track I like at the moment: DJ Remy & Roland Klinkenberg - Mexico Can Wait

I use only "proggy" to describe the darker, slower stuff. I rarely use the term progressive unless it is to describe music that I really think is progressive. I happen to believe mine is the correct usage, largely because of the historical precedent for it. I think you and your friends would do well to research what styles were called progressive originally, and reassess your positions. The progressive name has been applied to many styles, not just tracks that are slow and subtle.

"Bandwagon" does not imply poppy. It implies that a style becomes vogue, and producers replicate it in large numbers, crafting an entire genre around it. It's not so much that being a bandwagon genre makes it bad, I just find that most prog house is boring as hell.

quote:

Originally posted by Beat Blog p.s every time I see this thread, it pisses me off that some retard couldn't just go back and correct his own spelling. "progressice".

Well, we at least agree on something.

quote:

...and KISS is?

Why in the world wouldn't they be? Do tell.

___________________

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quote:

Originally posted by thoughtlessjex Why in the world wouldn't they be? Do tell.

Why would they be? They're not heavy or metal.

Hard rock would be much more accurate. I know they called KISS and Bon Jovi (!) heavy metal in the eighties but that's just wrong.

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Latest releases:
Endless Cycles [Capital Heaven]
The Charlatan [Morphosis]

Haha, Kiss as heavy metal. Just because you dress retardedly and sing giant stage anthems doesn't mean you're metal. Dimmu Borgir or Children of Bodom would eat their faces off, and I hate metal for the most part.

quote:

Originally posted by Abhay Are they both ADjectives? I'm so confused. I think both describe music. But an adjective qualifies a noun. Progressive in the innovative sense i think is an adverb, as it is qualifying a verb. DOING. PROGRESSING the genre/sound.

It isn't an adverb, because it doesn't qualify any verb. In the form "progressive" it can't be an adverb: it would need an "-ly" suffix. They're both adjectives in the way they're used.

quote:

Originally posted by Spirit5 It means both things from my point of view. There's music that does use "progressive structure"...where the song progresses over a long period of time, as a lot of trance does. Then there's "progressive" as far as things going forward...being more "progressive thinking" and added new elements like new sounds. I think if some people on here would just come to a consensus like that, seek the middle ground...there wouldn't be silly arguments like this. It's the same thing with politics...polarization...people being so one sided with their views.

But the structure is not what the term means. It's just one of the predominant features in a lot (definitely not all) progressive house/trance/whatever from recent years. That's taking a feature and attributing the label to it. It ignores the history of the music and it ignores the source of the term.

___________________
Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

Last edited by SYSTEM-J on Aug-09-2007 at 14:46

There is no right or wrong here.

Some of us including myself use the word progressive to describe the structure.

Others use it to say the music is forward thinking, radical or whatever.

And others still, will use it for both.

We can sit on here and argue till we are blue in the face how "my definition is correct, yours is wrong" and cite endless quotes from god knows where with references to whatever genre from whatever year.

It won't change what our own defintions are so why bother?

oh...and one more thing

what does the term neo mean? (as in neo-trance)

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Listen to and download all my tracks at www.gregnicot.bandcamp.com

quote:

Originally posted by G-Con what does the term neo mean? (as in neo-trance)

"New". Like Neo-Nazis. They were still Nazis, but they were a new movement of Nazis.

___________________
Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

quote:

Originally posted by G-Con what does the term neo mean? (as in neo-trance)

It means "I want to be cooler than everyone else so I'm making up a nonsensical pseudo-subgenre".

___________________
Latest releases:
Endless Cycles [Capital Heaven]
The Charlatan [Morphosis]

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery Why would they be? They're not heavy or metal. Hard rock would be much more accurate. I know they called KISS and Bon Jovi (!) heavy metal in the eighties but that's just wrong.

I thought I just finished talking about how it's a good idea not to neglect the original meaning of a genre. I really don't know what else to say. I think you're just talking out of your ass.

quote:

Haha, Kiss as heavy metal. Just because you dress retardedly and sing giant stage anthems doesn't mean you're metal. Dimmu Borgir or Children of Bodom would eat their faces off, and I hate metal for the most part.

Thank God they're black and death metal, respectively, because otherwise Kiss really would be in trouble. I think if you don't even like metal, you shouldn't make shit up about it.

___________________

www.jexmusic.com - My website

quote:

Originally posted by thoughtlessjex I thought I just finished talking about how it's a good idea not to neglect the original meaning of a genre. I really don't know what else to say. I think you're just talking out of your ass.

Edit:
See, the original meaning of "heavy metal" came with Black Sabbath, which outdates KISS by several years. And can you honestly say those two bands sound alike?

___________________
Latest releases:
Endless Cycles [Capital Heaven]
The Charlatan [Morphosis]

Last edited by Mr.Mystery on Aug-09-2007 at 15:08