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Originally posted by RickyM I was arguing with a young-earth creationist on msn yesterday. I asked why he does not accept evolution, and one of his answers was "It does not agree with the Bible", amongst the usual arguments from personal incredulity. As soon as he said that, I knew there would be nothing I could say about evolution that would change his mind. I asked how he can reject modern scientific evidence in favour of a 2000 year old book (which states that bats are birds). He then said that there is scientific evidence for a young earth, then pointed me in the direction of Kent Hovind and Ken Ham...at which point I gave up. I was going to bring up dinosaurs also, but I already knew the arguments I would hear. David Attenborough found a 1 inch chameleon in Madagascar on his new BBC show, but apparently we just haven't spotted the fucking 30m long Brachiosaurus' that are roaming the earth... Oh...and I asked him how he knew the Bible was totally correct - and he answered "It has not been proven wrong"...I then asked him to prove wrong the story in the book 'The Lord of the Rings'

hahaha, i feel your pain. this is exactly the reason i dont bother, i just mock now. same with 911 conspiracy nutjobs.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN hahaha, i feel your pain. this is exactly the reason i dont bother, i just mock now. same with 911 conspiracy nutjobs.

Those conspiracy nutjobs actually want there to be a conspiracy. Any tiny piece of evidence to suggest a conspiracy, no matter how slight, and they're on it like flies round shite.

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Most 9/11 conspiracy nut jobs aren't such nut jobs. They just want answers to questions the Government pretends don't exist. Yea there's groups that take it way too far (just like those crazy Christians who think the Earth was formed 4000 years ago).

The way I look at the whole Creation vs Evolution, is that (unfortunately) the thought of "God", or something like it, has been around from when man became self aware. It's logical not to deem the existence of "God" because earlier man had no other tools of knowledge to think otherwise. The sun came up every day, the flowers bloomed, things were born and died. How could you not wonder if something greater than you was behind it all. The ancestors hypothesised, then accepted that this higher being created everything. When something like that goes on for a long enough time without any challenges, then it becomes fact. As such you will teach-force your offspring to beleive nothing else. Something like this spreads like wildfire and next thing you know everyone will beleive nothing else. Look at today. As much as we're armed with alternative evidence which contradicts creation, people will still make their kids beleive in "God". For too many reigions the though of going against your ancestral teachings is completely forbidden. I've always said to some of my co-workers that the reason they beleive is not that they wanted to, but because they had no choice. Their parents didn't give them the option of whether to beleive in "God" or not, as well as which religion to follow. Some of them still don't understand that logic.

A big problem in the end is that creation is so embedded one way or another in the populous of the human race, that evolution is just so wrong to them. As it was stated earlier on how religious people inexplicably accept that "God" had always been, regardless of the fact he/she/it had to come from somewhere, and denounce that fact that life itself could also have come from out of the blue.

It's a battle since creation really never has to be proven, but evolution does... regardless of how much overwhelming evidence there is for it. It should no longer be that evolution is a theory, but more to the fact that "God" should now be!

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Originally posted by infinity HiGH Most 9/11 conspiracy nut jobs aren't such nut jobs.

your defitition of "most" is quite different to my own. no, most ARE nutjobs that see conspiracy everywhere, and ignore all the evidence to the contrary.

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Originally posted by infinity HiGH They just want answers to questions the Government pretends don't exist.

what you mean is that they are dissatisfied with the many answers that have been provided (and not really by the government) and generally just ignore everything that doesn't fit inside their "OMG inside job!" mentality.

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i'm not sure how old the earth is to be honest with you guys, i'm not even sure what the bible says on that matter. i'm not even sure if christianity should be concerned with such things. I mean Jesus wasnt concerned with debating with intellectuals or philosophers in his time, thats not why he was here. Maybe its 1,3903,203,2083 years old maybe its 10,000, i dont know, all i know that either way it has nothing to do with the way i should live my life according to christianity or my salvation for that matter. I think its evident just by this thread that when science and "religion" mix its often not a good thing......

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Originally posted by miamitrance04 I think its evident just by this thread that when science and "religion" mix its often not a good thing......

RJT can you repost that special something one more time...

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Originally posted by ******** Seplling don't demonstrate intelligence and educatoin - knowing does.

and for this comment too.

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Originally posted by miamitrance04 Maybe its 1,3903,203,2083 years old maybe its 10,000,

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Originally posted by Prometheus Xex The way I look at the whole Creation vs Evolution, is that (unfortunately) the thought of "God", or something like it, has been around from when man became self aware. It's logical not to deem the existence of "God" because earlier man had no other tools of knowledge to think otherwise. The sun came up every day, the flowers bloomed, things were born and died. How could you not wonder if something greater than you was behind it all. The ancestors hypothesised, then accepted that this higher being created everything. When something like that goes on for a long enough time without any challenges, then it becomes fact. As such you will teach-force your offspring to beleive nothing else. Something like this spreads like wildfire and next thing you know everyone will beleive nothing else. Look at today. As much as we're armed with alternative evidence which contradicts creation, people will still make their kids beleive in "God". For too many reigions the though of going against your ancestral teachings is completely forbidden. I've always said to some of my co-workers that the reason they beleive is not that they wanted to, but because they had no choice. Their parents didn't give them the option of whether to beleive in "God" or not, as well as which religion to follow. Some of them still don't understand that logic. A big problem in the end is that creation is so embedded one way or another in the populous of the human race, that evolution is just so wrong to them. As it was stated earlier on how religious people inexplicably accept that "God" had always been, regardless of the fact he/she/it had to come from somewhere, and denounce that fact that life itself could also have come from out of the blue. It's a battle since creation really never has to be proven, but evolution does... regardless of how much overwhelming evidence there is for it. It should no longer be that evolution is a theory, but more to the fact that "God" should now be!

I'm sorry but i have to 1000% disagree with your post. I grew up in Christian home. My parents were missionaries when I was younger and now my father is a minister and my mom works along side of him. They have never forced God on me. In fact the reason I believe in what I believe is the transformation I've witnessed in peoples lives when they CHOOSE to believe. Christianity at least in my experience has never been about being forced to do someting its a choice. We have free will. Christianity is about an open relationship with your savior it is not a Religion. Anyways I think we've ventured far enough from the original subject of this thread

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Originally posted by miamitrance04 I think its evident just by this thread that when science and "religion" mix its often not a good thing......

You don't really know much about science, do you? Or is this a joke?

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The point of science is to disprove with evidence and reject null hypothesizes with enough evidence. Science never proves anything it only disproves with evidence.

By that assumption we cannot dismiss a higher being due to lack of evidence. Do we know exactly how the universe was created? We have some loose theories. but nothing complete.

We have however disproved the following:

The earth was not created 4,000 years ago. Carbon dating half lives have shown it is at least 3 billion years old due to iron oxide formations.


The oldest known organism must be about 2 billion years old due to carbon dating.


Hmans did not simply appear from nowhere to co exist with all the living species on the earth. Fossil records show that they are related to primates and are of that Order.

The species that exist now do not reflect on all the species that have ever lived on the planet. They represent only a small fraction of the species that have ever lived on Earth. Fossil records show vertebrates have been around for at least 540 million years.

The reason why airplanes can fly is not a miracle. Humans have successfully engineered them to do so with science.


Now this is meant to disprove any religion to be taken literally.

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Originally posted by Lira You don't really know much about science, do you? Or is this a joke?

judging by your repsonses thus far it seems that you beleive that humans are an exception to evolution. Or maybe your rhetoric is just too strong for me.