Whether or not he is told the truth wont change the fact that he needs help in his current situation. Lets work on solving the problem first then the questions can come later. People under the influence of drugs are totally unreasonable anyway.

This comment is a general development on the discussion here, but I'd like to specifically address it to Irishaddict and Ania_cox:

Why do you people think that this guy not knowing it was his family who called the cops on him is somehow good for him or will help to aid his recovery? Where do you people get such naive thoughts??? I mean, if his parents did love him and cared for him and did everything they could while he was a child growing up to instill good moral values and personal self-confidence in him then yes, he might be considered a failure of a child... but if his parents mistreated him or through some other way helped to contribute to the development of these problems in him... then how can you possibly think that by them continuing to lie and cover up their actions will their relationship ever improve (thus helping him to improve and resolve his problems, as you are suggesting)? We don't know where the root of this guy's problems lies, so we shouldn't assume that family will necessarily always make it better. If any of you could understand Czech, I could point you at this very minute to examples of discussion websites where people who have had severe relationship problems with their parents (as children) or family relatives have written, and by reading these discussions (some of them are like 20+ pages, spanning over the development of several years), you could []Imaybe[/I] become cured of your naivite... although that seems not certain. When you read first-hand account stories of adults who write that their (biological!) father or mother beat them up so bad as children that blood was literally streaking from them from to sides and that their brother or sister even used their body to shield them from the attack, maybe you would rethink your thoughts. And these are just two such stories that I remember reading (both first-hand accounts), that quickly come to mind - one was written by a woman, her story was that after her father died and the mother remarried, she started to severely abuse her children and at one point she beat up her young daughter so bad that had her brother not shielded her with his body, she would have probably been killed that time; the other was written by a guy who wrote that as a 12-year old, he was beaten up by his father into unconsiousness, and his father also chased him with grape-cutting scissor saying he will kill him, and this dude ended up shooting himself at maybe 15??? (don't remember now), and somehow miracoulously surviving. Would you say to them that their parents and family also wanted the best for them and that no one could understood the dynamics of their relationships better than their family????


Back to the topic, perhaps the guy in question needed to be arrested to be saved from his own self-destructive habits, but it has to be pointed out that if his family did on a significant level contribute to the development of his problems over a longer time-period, maybe what he needs to really realize is that he cannot trust them and should not trust them and decide to make his life better for his own sake, not for that of his parents. And him knowing that his family betrayed him this way might even help him in that. If that's really the case, then he has to come to the conclusion of his own that he wants to live a better life and has to gather up his own strength to do it, not to rely on his family. Either he will do it and survive, or he will not, and he will not make it. That's the cold facts I can see from reading many stories of other people who had serious fallouts with their family... (such as those that I was writing about above).

___________________
Music was my first love
and it will be my last
Music of the future
And music of the past
To live without my music
would be impossible to do
Cause in these times of trouble
My music pulls me through...

quote:

Originally posted by Rodrico To be honest, I dont mind the big guy up there, I just hate all his fanclubs.

***I've got hairgel in my bathroom and Tylenol near my bed***

quote:

Originally posted by ******** everyone knows who NOT to contact now when they need help. You basically turned the guy in to be tortured for his choice to do drugs.

hey thanks for that, as if that's not on my fucking mind.

quote:

Originally posted by yankeeBaby For instance, what if he tells his friend the truth, and the parents deny it to save their own ass (which seems a likely scenario?) That will just be a cause for more confusion.

Luckily this is one thing I don’t need to worry about. My conversation with his family after the arrest took place at my restaurant - I have the recordings plus the audio. Jesus, how sad would it be if I had to resort to that?

quote:

Originally posted by Abercrombie You don't need to worry about the guy. Yeah, you have your honour, and I respect that and see it in you. But forget about him. You distanced yourself for a reason. Keep it that way.

I completely agree, and its not about my feelings or honour. This is a very delicate situation: if I tell him, and he gets worse because of my interference, then it’s all on me anyway. If I don’t tell him, and his crazy parents do the absurd things they want to do to him, and if something were to happen to him DOWN THE LINE, I WILL BE THE ONE WHO TRIGGERED THIS WHOLE THING, him getting ARRESTED and thrown in JAIL and all the other shit that WILL happen to him will be cause of my doings. Like I said, I can turn the cheek here, no problem, I’m just trying to find out how I can disengage myself from future shit that will inevitably fall on my lap.

The only thing that comes to mind is, his parents eventually telling him the truth – I don’t care when or how, on there terms. But the fact is, they have made it one hundred percent clear that, it will never happen.

And that is the ONLY solution here: the family taking responsibility for their actions by THEIR OWN ADMITTANCEN and NOT by me having to tell their son that they lied. And after talking to the older brother a couple hours ago, it looks like I shouldn’t hold my breath.

Like honestly, I can’t fucking lash out at his family because that would just be callous of me...

But fuck...

quote:

Originally posted by gummybear I rarely post on here but this thread has compelled me to do so.. Being a Social Worker I deal with mental illness on a daily basis and creating confusion and deception in the life of someone who is obviously already confused can never be positive.. If you're friend is going to get better, he needs to do so with things being transparent....It seems that some people on here think that he will somehow magically be cured and only then will he be able to appreciate the truth..that really is spitting in the face of someone living with mental illness.....if he were to find out the truth in the coming weeks, months, years....it will force him to reasses all that he has gone through in that time..and IF he has made progress the truth may actually be counterproductive....meaning..if you're not going to tell him now..don't bother telling him after he he has made some progess... it looks like you're friend needs someone in his corner and no matter how much his parents think they are helping him....tricking him and locking him up is not the way to go...by going along and lying to him..all you're doing is validating their actions...

THANK YOU.

___________________
Music was my first love
and it will be my last
Music of the future
And music of the past
To live without my music
would be impossible to do
Cause in these times of trouble
My music pulls me through...

quote:

Originally posted by Rodrico To be honest, I dont mind the big guy up there, I just hate all his fanclubs.

***I've got hairgel in my bathroom and Tylenol near my bed***

quote:

Originally posted by evil_cookie hey thanks for that, as if that's not on my fucking mind. Luckily this is one thing I don’t need to worry about. My conversation with his family after the arrest took place at my restaurant - I have the recordings plus the audio. Jesus, how sad would it be if I had to resort to that? I completely agree, and its not about my feelings or honour. This is a very delicate situation: if I tell him, and he gets worse because of my interference, then it’s all on me anyway. If I don’t tell him, and his crazy parents do the absurd things they want to do to him, and if something were to happen to him DOWN THE LINE, I WILL BE THE ONE WHO TRIGGERED THIS WHOLE THING, him getting ARRESTED and thrown in JAIL and all the other shit that WILL happen to him will be cause of my doings. Like I said, I can turn the cheek here, no problem, I’m just trying to find out how I can disengage myself from future shit that will inevitably fall on my lap. The only thing that comes to mind is, his parents eventually telling him the truth – I don’t care when or how, on there terms. But the fact is, they have made it one hundred percent clear that, it will never happen. And that is the ONLY solution here: the family taking responsibility for their actions by THEIR OWN ADMITTANCEN and NOT by me having to tell their son that they lied. And after talking to the older brother a couple hours ago, it looks like I shouldn’t hold my breath. Like honestly, I can’t fucking lash out at his family because that would just be callous of me... But fuck...

alright well then be strong and stern and tell them, "either you tell him in the future or I do, you guys make the choice."

Wow. It's things like this that make me feel closer to this community. This situation is an amazing study of legal philosophy vis-a-vis the Mental Health Act and its limitations of the Charter which can be justified using the proportionality test. I'd love to write an essay on this right now!!! (I miss university ) but I digress...

evil_cookie, when I first read your post I thought, you should tell him the truth, because I have this optimistic view that he will get better and once he does, he will understand why his parents had to do what they did.

Then, after reading some responses I was thinking, you should blackmail his parents and say if they don't tell him (by some date that you know you will be able to visit him, once you've confirmed his location) then you will tell him. I'm thinking it's best for his family to come clean because even if he hates them in the short term, in the long term, he will love them and thank them for telling the truth FIRST, and also hopefully understand why they lied to you and him in the first place, because they feared for his life when he was outside and vulnerable to more harm.

Now, after much more thought, I'm thinking that you shouldn't tell him (yet) OR blackmail his parents. I think the best thing you can do (and to clear your own conscience, because like it or not, you are directly involved in this situation--so I would disagree with AJ's advice, that you should distance yourself, because you DO care obviously)...is to talk to the judge in this case, who you can assume will have a much more objective position than the family, their lawyer, or the police.

I think you have very important information in this case that should be heard by the external decision makers. I know you'd much rather cleanse yourself of the situation (I think I would too) but your will to help and be involved probably overrides that selfish motive. I think you would be more effective and helpful to your friend if you shared your perspective of the history (most of which the police and everyone already know, but your consistent story would establish your credibility in the matter) and if you further explained your side of the truth, perhaps the judge (who would confer with the lawyers) could use what you want to say as part of his decision--I know a decision has already been made, but perhaps the judge could guide you. That might be too much of a stretch, but at least you'll know you've done everything in your power to help (although it may be very time consuming and maybe impossible, as I'm not sure how the legal system would work in this case and whether you'd have access to the judge or how the judge would be involved from this point on).

Anyway, those are my $0.02.

You have to ask yourself, if you see yourself being a friend to this guy in 10 years?

From that you can make your decision.

The other problem you may run into, since the guy is confused obviously, who is to say that he would even believe you if you told him. He may already have a predisposed idea and nothing you say will change it.

I would just lay low for now and wait for him to get out of rehab/jail. Don't have any contact with the parents or brother. They seem like they are irrational.

You may already be in the clear too, since the police could have told him who called them.

If you care, you can find out where he is and go see him on your own accord just to make sure he is ok. You don't need the parents for that. Call the police and try and find him.

What if you wait to see if gets the help he needs and cleans up...

Then...you tell him the truth...

See in hind-sight it woulda been better to not have called anybody and just seen him in private...

But you did what you did for whatever reasons you felt you needed to and now have to deal with it...

I think it would be best to see if he gets better, then talk...


Shitty deal you're in though...but remember, it's much worse for him...

I just talked to his younger brother... (i'm thomas crown)

Thomas Crown - says:
hey what's the latest on your brother?
-- I -- says:
um
-- I -- says:
hes still in jail
-- I -- says:
we visited him yesterday and today
Thomas Crown - says:
what did he say about being arrested? what did you guys tell him...
-- I -- says:
we told him that the police came after him because he didnt follow court orders
-- I -- says:
and that there was an arrest warrant out ofr him
-- I -- says:
i dont even know if he remembers being with you
Thomas Crown - says:
the hell...seriously?
-- I -- says:
yeah i think so
Thomas Crown - says:
where is he being held? i wanna go visit him
-- I -- says:
43 division
-- I -- says:
you'll have to come with us though
-- I -- says:
theres a max of 2 visits per week for an in-mat
Thomas Crown - says:
oh really eh...that sucks...
-- I -- says:
hows everything with you
-- I -- says:
anyway i am out ill talk to you later

So.......I just called 43 Division to inquire about the visitation rules, and the officer asked me who my friend was, I told him his name, after checking his list he said, “we have nobody here by that name” then I asked him if they had anyone there by that last name even and he said no….

This is bs man, the mother told me that she’d call me when they were allowed to viist him, so they go twice without telling me shit? And now it looks like they lie about where he is?

Someone make some sense out of this...

family full of psychos.

quote:

Originally posted by evil_cookie This is bs man, the mother told me that she’d call me when they were allowed to viist him, so they go twice without telling me shit? And now it looks like they lie about where he is? Someone make some sense out of this...

They lied to you before, and there's clearly no indication of that stopping.

I can imagine it's a gut-wrentching situation for them too. As parents of any species, they need to protect and will by any means, even if it means lying, or in their thoughts; keeping the truth.

It's cool that you care, it shows you as a man of character. Life will throw you a lot more challenges like this one in life, and at least you can learn from it, and make you stronger.

___________________

Short time TA, Long time Guver, Good time giver.

quote:

Originally posted by Kamka This comment is a general development on the discussion here, but I'd like to specifically address it to Irishaddict and Ania_cox: Why do you people think that this guy not knowing it was his family who called the cops on him is somehow good for him or will help to aid his recovery? Where do you people get such naive thoughts??? I mean, if his parents did love him and cared for him and did everything they could while he was a child growing up to instill good moral values and personal self-confidence in him then yes, he might be considered a failure of a child... but if his parents mistreated him or through some other way helped to contribute to the development of these problems in him... then how can you possibly think that by them continuing to lie and cover up their actions will their relationship ever improve (thus helping him to improve and resolve his problems, as you are suggesting)? We don't know where the root of this guy's problems lies, so we shouldn't assume that family will necessarily always make it better. If any of you could understand Czech, I could point you at this very minute to examples of discussion websites where people who have had severe relationship problems with their parents (as children) or family relatives have written, and by reading these discussions (some of them are like 20+ pages, spanning over the development of several years), you could []Imaybe[/I] become cured of your naivite... although that seems not certain. When you read first-hand account stories of adults who write that their (biological!) father or mother beat them up so bad as children that blood was literally streaking from them from to sides and that their brother or sister even used their body to shield them from the attack, maybe you would rethink your thoughts. And these are just two such stories that I remember reading (both first-hand accounts), that quickly come to mind - one was written by a woman, her story was that after her father died and the mother remarried, she started to severely abuse her children and at one point she beat up her young daughter so bad that had her brother not shielded her with his body, she would have probably been killed that time; the other was written by a guy who wrote that as a 12-year old, he was beaten up by his father into unconsiousness, and his father also chased him with grape-cutting scissor saying he will kill him, and this dude ended up shooting himself at maybe 15??? (don't remember now), and somehow miracoulously surviving. Would you say to them that their parents and family also wanted the best for them and that no one could understood the dynamics of their relationships better than their family????

dude, what the fuck are you talking about?

the person in question is mentally ill. they need help first and foremost. the big hero party you're painting is just not a reality.

___________________
You told me to look much farther. You told me to walk much more. You told me that music matters.