quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles I'm picturing a dark club where the DJs play minuets and waltzes as strobe lights flash and people go crazy on the dance floor. Underground!

http://clone.nl/item7529.html

Click on #4.

Just heard this open a set. John Beltran is so good

quote:

Originally posted by RJT So it's official then, if it only comes out on vinyl, it's underground. Give me a fucking break.

He has a valid point IMO, because it's not as easily obtainable and subject to more physical distribution limitations, not to mention more costly and there are physical limits to quantity.

quote:

Originally posted by RJT So it's official then, if it only comes out on vinyl, it's underground. Give me a fucking break.

Well, vinyl is limited to the amount of pressings it gets. Not to mention, it is a lot harder to distribute on a much wider scale then digital music. Both of these points would mean it would be harder for the majority of people to come across specific tracks, keeping them hidden from said people, therefor making these tracks "underground", in a sense.

Is this something you disagree with?

Yeah but those 12"s usually still have samples up on webshops.

quote:

Originally posted by distant Yeah but those 12"s usually still have samples up on webshops.

Are you implying that djs are playing web samples?

My point is that there is a lesser quantity of vinyl and the availability to them is lesser then an mp3. Hundreds of thousands of people could theoretically go on Beatport and download a given track. Only so many people can get a hold of a record because there isn't an endless supply of them. Thus, keeping it "underground", as the kids like to call it.

quote:

Originally posted by DOOMBOT Are you implying that djs are playing web samples?

I think his point was the vinyls are still easy to find, since they're showcased on webshops.

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles I think his point was the vinyls are still easy to find, since they're showcased on webshops.

I'm not talking about being able to identify a track though. I never even implied that.

Just because they are showcased on a webshop doesn't mean it will never go out of stock, thus limiting the amount of people who can own it.

Being able to ID the track is a part of the fun and it's something we all hope to be able to do with tracks that we like. It's one of the most frustrating things for me, when I hear a track that I like a lot and am never able to identify it. Of course, that is going even further under the ground but I'm talking about the availability to everyone and anyone who wants it.

quote:

Originally posted by distant Yeah but those 12"s usually still have samples up on webshops.

granted, it's easier to know the tracks thtough web shops

but vinyl still has the physical limitation of supply (just now i tried to buy a record "Koi - Deaf Torerro [Styrax Leaves]" from boomkat, and it was out of stock )

How underground something is isn't limited by how many people own it, it's limited by how many people know about it.

quote:

Originally posted by distant How underground something is isn't limited by how many people own it, it's limited by how many people know about it.

But that doesn't make any sense. So what you are saying is that back in the 80's and early 90's, EDM was underground because not a lot of people knew of its existence? If that is what you are implying then you've really lost me there.

A lot of sets from back then still consisted of identifiable tracks. I believe that those tracks were more "underground" then ones today because of their availability. You couldn't go from party to party and hear the same tracks over and over again because only so many people had that track. Today, every dj owns Total Departure and since it's popular, they are all going to play it. To me, that is not underground. If only 500 people could play it, whether we knew the track name or not, then it would still be "underground."

Last edited by DOOMBOT on Jul-03-2008 at 18:18

well

considering that deejays play the records they own

if more deejays own it, more people will know about it!

quote:

Originally posted by DOOMBOT Well, vinyl is limited to the amount of pressings it gets. Not to mention, it is a lot harder to distribute on a much wider scale then digital music. Both of these points would mean it would be harder for the majority of people to come across specific tracks, keeping them hidden from said people, therefor making these tracks "underground", in a sense. Is this something you disagree with?

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec He has a valid point IMO, because it's not as easily obtainable and subject to more physical distribution limitations, not to mention more costly and there are physical limits to quantity.

Completely disagree on all counts.

Contemporary vinyl releases are every bit as easy to get your hands on if you know what you're looking for. Being released on vinyl in no way, shape, or form makes a record "underground" - and frankly, I think the word itself and the mentality that accompanies it is a fucking joke to begin with (and here I'm talking both about the "vinyl is underground" mentality as well as the "underground" mentality in general).

___________________
last minute disco dot net

quote:

Originally posted by RJT Completely disagree on all counts. Contemporary vinyl releases are every bit as easy to get your hands on if you know what you're looking for. Being released on vinyl in no way, shape, or form makes a record "underground" - and frankly, I think the word itself and the mentality that accompanies it is a fucking joke to begin with (and here I'm talking both about the "vinyl is underground" mentality as well as the "underground" mentality in general).

Well that is the obvious problem. People's definitions of it are different, which to me isn't something hard to cope with. The whole thing is stupid anyway. I just tried to make sense of it a little and tried to make a point of what I believe the term means.