quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Which would also make it harder for him to endorse yes ? But wait a second:

You're obviously confused. Credit is just another form of debt. I guess you didn't know there are many forms of debt, huh? You're "gotcha" moment, yea, it didn't work...

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quote:

Originally posted by Shakka Assuming you're dumb enough to use a card that has an annual fee!

while true, i was thinking more along the lines that the company is providing a service of keeping a line open, whether you pay an annual fee or not.

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka i.e. revolving debt.

i was distinguishing between the amount of debt issued and the amount of debt available.

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Originally posted by Shakka I can't even tell--are you and I arguing the same thing? I'm getting confused!

perhaps, i was just throwing it out whether a distinction between product and service is even relevant. A service is just the product offered by the service provider. A lawyer's product is his legal knowledge, a financial advisor's product is his financial knowledge, etc...

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton You're obviously confused. Credit is just another form of debt. I guess you didn't know there are many forms of debt, huh? You're "gotcha" moment, yea, it didn't work...

that's actually not true. credit is the thing provided by the lender. Debt is what a person/entity owes to the lender. you don't owe credit, and you don't provide debt. Make sense?

quote:

Originally posted by jerZ07002 that's actually not true. credit is the thing provided by the lender. Debt is what a person/entity owes to the lender. you don't owe credit, and you don't provide debt. Make sense?

I was wrong. You are right. Still ShoalinZ believes in a debt free utopia, and cites Adam Smith as a premise. I wholeheartedly disagree with his conclusion.

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Originally posted by {b.s.e.} Could you source that please?

http://www.federalreserve.gov/otherfrb.htm

The Google...it's not that hard to understand.

[edit: so I skipped ahead to the next page after posting...both jerz and I had enough brains to know exactly where to go to find the answer, why was that so hard.]

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"Go back to bed america your government is in control
Here's American Gladiators, here is 56 channels of it,
Watch these picturary retards bang their fuckin' skulls together and congratulate you on living in the land of freedom,
Here you go America you are free to do as we tell you
We want your soul
Your cash, your house, your phone, your cash, your house, your life" -Adam Freeland - We Want Your Soul

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka Assuming you're dumb enough to use a card that has an annual fee!

I've gotten to credit levels where I agree with this. I've never understood AmEx's model, maybe because I've never had to use the perks.

___________________
"Go back to bed america your government is in control
Here's American Gladiators, here is 56 channels of it,
Watch these picturary retards bang their fuckin' skulls together and congratulate you on living in the land of freedom,
Here you go America you are free to do as we tell you
We want your soul
Your cash, your house, your phone, your cash, your house, your life" -Adam Freeland - We Want Your Soul

quote:

Originally posted by Groundhog Boy I've gotten to credit levels where I agree with this. I've never understood AmEx's model, maybe because I've never had to use the perks.

amex makes a killing on its corporate accounts. Amex lets a company link the charges into the company's expense system to directly charge clients. i'm pretty sure that amex couldn't survive without the corporate accounts, otherwise no merchant would accept the card with the 5% fee.

i pay an annual fee on my chase continental card, but i get a pretty ridiculous benefit with continental miles. I use my card for everything and pay it off at the end of the month (i've never carried a balance). i've accumulated more than 40,000 miles in one year, which is almost 2 round trip tickets in the US or 1 round trip to europe. It certainly exceeds the annual fee.


EDIT: also, Shakka, you know that corporations pay substantial fees simply to maintain an open line of credit with a bank. I wasn't just talking about personal credit cards.

Last edited by jerZ07002 on Oct-07-2008 at 04:10

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton I was wrong. You are right. Still ShoalinZ believes in a debt free utopia, and cites Adam Smith as a premise. I wholeheartedly disagree with his conclusion.

we all have our moments - i unequivocally agree with you.

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton I was wrong. You are right. Still ShoalinZ believes in a debt free utopia, and cites Adam Smith as a premise. I wholeheartedly disagree with his conclusion.

Nice misrepresentation of my point, unless you missed this one as well. All I was saying was that capitalism, in theory, which bears little resemblance to what is called capitalism today, doesn't have anything to do with out current monetary system or banking system.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z All I was saying was that capitalism...doesn't have anything to do with out current monetary system or banking system.

how does it NOT?

banking is the epitome of capitalist endeavour imo.

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quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Nice misrepresentation of my point, unless you missed this one as well. All I was saying was that capitalism, in theory, which bears little resemblance to what is called capitalism today, doesn't have anything to do with out current monetary system or banking system.

how could capitalism be effective without our current monetary system and banking? Our current banking system allows capital to flow to producers and our fiat monetary system allows the money supply to expand with the growth in the economy. Without increasing money supply, the value of dollar would severely out pace production and ultimately limit the growth of the economy. It all goes hand-in-hand.