quote:

Originally posted by Dj Smitty20 Well you went to Ivey (or one of the other business schools?), so I'm not surprised you view the labour market and workers as only a means to an end and little more. Your attitude would probably earn you a reputation for being a disliked and generally shitty boss too.

I am a York graduate (Fac. of Arts, before you accuse me of being a Schulich snob) and I completely share Sarah's views on this situation.

___________________
Just surrender yourself to the rhythm,
With your hands up in the sky,
Feel the energy deep inside your system
And leave this world behind...

quote:

Originally posted by FunkyCrew I am a York graduate (Fac. of Arts, before you accuse me of being a Schulich snob) and I completely share Sarah's views on this situation.

and I am a Western graduate, a Tri-University Laurier graduate, PhD without the dissertation, and a teacher's college graduate. What is your point?

___________________
"No offense, but you're stupid"

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Smitty20 and I am a Western graduate, a Tri-University Laurier graduate, PhD without the dissertation, and a teacher's college graduate. What is your point?

my point was that you accused Sarah of snobishness (sp?) just because she went to a business school

anyhow - my point still stands, the union's behaviour is absurd

also - a friend of mine is unfortunate enough to be a TA at York, and she does not support any of what's going on now. She told me that either in November or December, there were attempts to hold lectures and exams (in Osgoode Law school). The idiots would not let the professor lecture, switching off power/light in the classroom, and during the exam, they were standing and singing songs under the doors of the exam room
I'd like to hear how the fuck is that justifiable? and why does a 3rd party (students) has to suffer through this otrocious behaviour?

___________________
Just surrender yourself to the rhythm,
With your hands up in the sky,
Feel the energy deep inside your system
And leave this world behind...

What's a little ironic to me about this whole clusterfuck is that the unions are screwing over their most ardent supporters outside of the unions themselves.

The universities, the teachers, the ATU (TTC), all collectively flipping the bird to the Lib and Dipper generations. Can't be much longer before most of society catches onto the fact that unionization in its current incarnation is no longer a sustainable labour model.

___________________
My party schedule:
2009-02-21 - DJ Attention @ I'm So Popular
2009-06-18 - DJ Annoying @ People Need To Know Where I'll Be
2012-11-32 - DJ Insufferable ɸ Or At Least the Stalkers I Complain About
2048-06-66 - Spastic & Whocares ¶ Although I'm Actually Flattered
9999-45-81 - Tweaker Gimp ☼ I Probably Won't Even Go To This But I Have To Make Sure I Fill Up All The Available Space Here

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Smitty20 Well you went to Ivey (or one of the other business schools?), so I'm not surprised you view the labour market and workers as only a means to an end and little more. Your attitude would probably earn you a reputation for being a disliked and generally shitty boss too. Yeah, the economy is bad, bla bla bla. But it's been bad before and it will be bad again. Tough economic times are never an excuse to just shit all over 100 years of progress for worker's rights. If you tried to espouse these views in the Canadian political environment, you'd all be lambasted. Even Harper is smart enough to avoid bashing organised workforces as ignorantly as some one you here.

Setting aside your comments about business school making me a poorer manager, it's downright comical that you are basically saying that union members have a RIGHT to a job. I mean, I just don't know what else to say to that. I absolutely believe that unions are eventually detrimental to everyone involved, and no amount of crying about "poor working conditions" will make me change my mind. You as an employee always have the choice to walk away instead of hold innocent people hostage while you wait for your employer hand you job security on a silver platter. Job security is a privilege that is earned. It is not a right.

fuck the complainers (ooooooh my salary is too low) fuck you.. get another job.. don't whine about it.. be greatful you're not starving in africa. our economy is going crap and you're making 37 dollars an hour and complaining about it?.


shut up or switch jobs.. this is ridiculus. If only beheading was still legal.

quote:

Originally posted by Skipper Setting aside your comments about business school making me a poorer manager, it's downright comical that you are basically saying that union members have a RIGHT to a job. I mean, I just don't know what else to say to that. I absolutely believe that unions are eventually detrimental to everyone involved, and no amount of crying about "poor working conditions" will make me change my mind. You as an employee always have the choice to walk away instead of hold innocent people hostage while you wait for your employer hand you job security on a silver platter. Job security is a privilege that is earned. It is not a right.

Well, I'm pretty sure you'll find a large number of people that would take great issue with your anti-union stance. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that there aren't many on here. You get an interesting mix of ideology on here, a lot of it quite hard to understand. A lot of you constantly whine about strict drug laws and how people should have more rights in that regard, for example, but fighting for worker's rights is wrong, "archaic" and bad for business. It's a little bizarre, but I digress.

I mean, really, writing on a messageboard saying we should abandon unions and that nobody has the right to fight or negotiate for fair wages and benefits...you sound like Winston Churchill busting a 1930s strike.

___________________
"No offense, but you're stupid"

quote:

Originally posted by Skipper Setting aside your comments about business school making me a poorer manager

Heh - if business school makes you unqualified to be a businessperson, wouldn't that also imply that poli sci makes you unqualified to comment on politics?

___________________
My party schedule:
2009-02-21 - DJ Attention @ I'm So Popular
2009-06-18 - DJ Annoying @ People Need To Know Where I'll Be
2012-11-32 - DJ Insufferable ɸ Or At Least the Stalkers I Complain About
2048-06-66 - Spastic & Whocares ¶ Although I'm Actually Flattered
9999-45-81 - Tweaker Gimp ☼ I Probably Won't Even Go To This But I Have To Make Sure I Fill Up All The Available Space Here

quote:

Originally posted by FunkyCrew my point was that you accused Sarah of snobishness (sp?) just because she went to a business school anyhow - my point still stands, the union's behaviour is absurd also - a friend of mine is unfortunate enough to be a TA at York, and she does not support any of what's going on now. She told me that either in November or December, there were attempts to hold lectures and exams (in Osgoode Law school). The idiots would not let the professor lecture, switching off power/light in the classroom, and during the exam, they were standing and singing songs under the doors of the exam room I'd like to hear how the fuck is that justifiable? and why does a 3rd party (students) has to suffer through this otrocious behaviour?

Even in the strongest union, such as the CAW, there are always people who vote against striking because of the immediate short term impacts. Obviously, your friend is in the minority in this case. Plus, is she just a TA or an actual instructor?

There are rules and procedures to abide by when there is a legal strike, which this is, no matter how much it inconveniences people. University is not the public school system. They are essentially independent corporations that get subsidies from the provincial and federal governments. So, you are paying for a service that is provided by large numbers of unionised staff. There is no getting around it. They have the legal right to strike and they are allowed to picket responsibly. Frankly, I'm surprised that the professor would cross the line and attempt to lecture. Most professors I know wouldn't dare.

It's no different when any other industry's work force goes on strike. When there is negotiating (or lack thereof) going on, work stops until it's resolved. I'm not really caught up on York's situation (has there been an offer of arbitration?), but the suggestion that our society should be rid of unions is absolutely ridiculous.

8 hour work day, pensions, worker health and safety, overtime, stat holidays, benefits. What organisations are more directly responsible for making those aspects of modern life a reality in ALL sectors of employment (not just unionised) than unions and worker advocacy groups, especially in the 20th Century?

A lot of what everyone takes for granted in the workplace was fought over bitterly, so I'd really be hesitant to go blathering on about how they aren't needed anymore.

___________________
"No offense, but you're stupid"

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Smitty20 I also find that those who bitch about unions the loudest are those who want and need one in their work places the most.

very true

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Smitty20 The reality is that most of you on here don't know anything about how university faculties run their departments or what it's like to actually be a university instructor.

Honestly, if you can't speak from experience then stop perpetuating your appallingly double standard and tenuous arguments--I want to see your steadfast anti-unionization idealism when you’re in their shoes. And by experience, I don’t mean anecdotal stories like this:

quote:

Originally posted by FunkyCrew a friend of mine is unfortunate enough to be a TA at York, and she does not support any of what's going on now. She told me that either in November or December, there were attempts to hold lectures and exams (in Osgoode Law school). The idiots would not let the professor lecture, switching off power/light in the classroom, and during the exam, they were standing and singing songs under the doors of the exam room

quote:

Originally posted by Skipper The economy is shit, and TA's don't deserve any more job security than I do, or anyone else for that matter.

This is a grossly oversimplified and utterly fallacious view. As Smitty mentioned, these people have spent over a decade in school obtaining the highest level of education--the same people you ungrateful dumbasses went to for an education--are now the same ones you are dismissing. If you think a receptionist and someone who has spent considerable amount of money on post secondary education to make a living deserve the same job security, then you’re an idiot. And THAT is the real world.

quote:

Originally posted by Skipper Unions have a very short term, narrow minded focus

Minimum wage, the right to organize, holiday pay, pension, compensation and severance pay, job security, enforcing a safe work environment...so on and so forth--yup, short term and narrow minded.

Do you think before you type?

quote:

Originally posted by FunkyCrew anyhow - my point still stands, the union's behaviour is absurd

Before you continue your nonsense, it should be noted that the unionization advocates are the same people who support certain immigration laws which have allowed you to come to this country in hopes of obtaining citizenship. So before making ‘absurd’ claims, know that the underlying social and democratic principles that you are so robustly refuting are same ones that you have been privileged with.

A note in general: look at the Scandinavian states and their advocacy for unionization and compare how well their market is doing compared to Canada.

Last edited by evil_cookie on Jan-28-2009 at 06:13

the whole strike situation @ York annoys me almost as much as Adam Vaughan

___________________
Palm Trees > Pine Trees , Sand > Snow

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Heh - if business school makes you unqualified to be a businessperson, wouldn't that also imply that poli sci makes you unqualified to comment on politics?

Yeah, well dude I know quite a few people who went to business school and got jobs at banks in the financial sector and guess, what 3 of them are laid off already and can't find work. A degree from Ivey, for example, doesn't guarantee shit in the business world as far as success goes. But I'm not talking about being "qualified". There is a human element in the labour industry too, though it might suit some of you to overlook that aspect.

In case I wasn't clear, I'm talking about the ATTITUDE that business types have toward labour, especially those fresh out of business school. I find it personally digusting the way that labour or workers are viewed by many. All in the name of being productive and making more money, it's ok to hire and fire at will, or refuse full time jobs and benefits to those who are the most qualified, instead just hiring at shit wages with absolutely no security at all.

What is someone (like my mom for example) supposed to do at say, age 55, when her boss decides that she's too old and not as quick at her job anymore, so he decides to hire someone in their 20s? It's ok for him to just fire her ass, give her half a year's severance with no pension, and see ya later? That kind of shit goes on EVERY DAY in the workplace, even in a country such as ours with all of our rights and freedoms. People deserve to be treated better than the impression many of you are leaving on me here.

There is something to be said about treating your workers well and rewarding them. I dont' think I'd want to work for some of you here, because I'm more than just part of the working herd, as you seem to view us.

___________________
"No offense, but you're stupid"