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Originally posted by jerZ07002 It does. He's clearly admitted he just doesn't want to pay taxes. I shouldn't be freely giving him this information, but he should know that if he doesn't file certain forms (5471) the consequences are as follows:

relax fools. not wanting to pay taxes, and actually not paying them are 2 different things. I have always paid them accordingly. Fucking A, yeah I hate paying them. I'm just in a position now in this upcoming year where I may not have to, legitimately. Don't hate

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Originally posted by The17sss I didn't imply you were in over your head on tax law, I was saying that you were about business operations in Malaysia. You assumed I was "using" malaysia as a tax haven, which I wasn't... me using the word "siphon" probably didn't help, but you can ask Krypton; he and I have talked extensively about my legitimate business operations there for a while now. A Malaysian based company basically absorbed our U.S. company, and we operate there NOT as a foreign corporation, and do so legitimately. We applied for and got the transfer of technology grant through their government to make the knowledge/resources that originated through our U.S. based company officially the legal property of Malaysia. We also applied for the BioNexus status because of what we're involved in, which I explained earlier gives 5 years of tax free profits, and got that. As long as I keep the money earned there over there, there's no reason for me to pay taxes on it. Like I said, I can wire transfer money from there to buy whatever I want over here legitimately.

good luck. but from the facts as you lay them out, it doesn't seem like you can legally avoid paying US taxes. i don't know why you think untaxed malaysian income should be untaxed in the US when that money is used for your benefit. To add to that, if your company was acquired by a malaysian company, and you have an ownership interest in the malaysian company you could still be subject to US tax on the malaysian company's current earnings. i suggest you talk to a tax lawyer because it sounds like you're breaking the law and could be subjecting yourself to potential civil and criminal liabilities.

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Originally posted by The17sss relax fools. not wanting to pay taxes, and actually not paying them are 2 different things. I have always paid them accordingly. Fucking A, yeah I hate paying them. I'm just in a position now in this upcoming year where I may not have to, legitimately. Don't hate

that's a huge may.

Since you hate paying taxes, i expect you to hate the benefits of the US military, using public highways, public grants for research, public universities, the local police force, access to US courts, etc... Is that fair?

Last edited by jerZ07002 on Nov-11-2008 at 18:20

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Originally posted by The17sss this must be your morally reprehensible finger pointer statement of the day. kudos. your idealism is commendable but if you can learn to accept that life isn't fair for everyone, and won't be, you might not be so angry all the time

It has nothing to do with fairness. That's the last thing on my mind.

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Originally posted by The17sss why? because a company operates in a country that is a tax haven and legally uses that to their advantage?

there is nothing wrong with legally operating in a tax haven country. I help set up holding company structures using luxembourg and other low tax jurisdictions. i take it you have no idea what tax attorneys do on a day to day basis. Briefly stated, i have two main functions, 1) to evaluate current practices to see whether those practices conform with current law and to evaluate less costly methods of conducting those practices (restructuring operations to reduce taxes), and 2) to structure transactions to be tax efficient (reduce the tax burden on transactions, mainly cash distributions back to the US and mergers and acquisitions). So, the bullshit you're trying to pull is part of my job description; the distinction being I do it legally and effectively.

the problem with many tax havens is they have enacted law to assist tax evaders in their quest to commit crimes in their home countries. Countries like switzerland have laws prohibiting banks from disclosing banking records so that home country governments can't see the full extent of their residents.

To me, and almost everyone else on this board, what you are doing isn't legally avoiding taxes, you seem to be willfully understating your taxable income.

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 good luck. but from the facts as you lay them out, it doesn't seem like you can legally avoid paying US taxes. i don't know why you think untaxed malaysian income should be untaxed in the US when that money is used for your benefit. To add to that, if your company was acquired by a malaysian company, and you have an ownership interest in the malaysian company you could still be subject to US tax on the malaysian company's current earnings. i suggest you talk to a tax lawyer because it sounds like you're breaking the law and could be subjecting yourself to potential civil and criminal liabilities.

hmm... you got me thinking now. In a fucked up way, I may end up thanking you by default down the road. I definitely don't want to willfully break the law; I was attempting to figure out a way to circumvent paying income taxes by taking advantage of overseas holdings. Maybe I should talk to a tax lawyer.

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 that's a huge may. Since you hate paying taxes, i expect you to hate the benefits of the US military, using public highways, public grants for research, public universities, the local police force, access to US courts, etc... Is that fair?

That is a huge "MAY".... but I don't want to end up in the Gray-bar Hotel if you know what I mean.

I don't hate paying taxes... let me clarify in better detail what I meant: I hate paying a higher percentage of my income each time I go up a tax bracket. Can I afford to do it, yes... but the reasons why really grate at me and I feel like I'm being punished for success, especially when so many people DON'T pay any. I fully understand the benefits I reap from things like roads, military, police, etc... it's the ever growing percentage on the upper brackets that infuriates me.

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 i take it you have no idea what tax attorneys do on a day to day basis. To me, and almost everyone else on this board, what you are doing isn't legally avoiding taxes, you seem to be willfully understating your taxable income.

I have a general idea on what tax attorneys do... you're not giving me any info I'm surprised to hear. You just got me thinking now. I guess the key thing in my quest to keep as much money as I can is to find out IF the income I make in Malaysia that won't be taxed and goes into the bank account I have there can be used in a way such as, well for example, what if I wanted to buy an F-150 through Ford Credit that cost $40K... could I wire $40K from the bank account in Malaysia directly to Ford Credit and have that be a done deal? Or would I have to wire it here, report it, get taxed in it, then use whatever is left towards the $40K cost? I need to figure this out before I go rogue

Aren't there repatriation issues? At least if it's over a certain amount?

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Originally posted by The17sss I have a general idea on what tax attorneys do... you're not giving me any info I'm surprised to hear. You just got me thinking now. I guess the key thing in my quest to keep as much money as I can is to find out IF the income I make in Malaysia that won't be taxed and goes into the bank account I have there can be used in a way such as, well for example, what if I wanted to buy an F-150 through Ford Credit that cost $40K... could I wire $40K from the bank account in Malaysia directly to Ford Credit and have that be a done deal? Or would I have to wire it here, report it, get taxed in it, then use whatever is left towards the $40K cost? I need to figure this out before I go rogue

bottom line is that it's very very difficult for an individual (EDIT: living in the US) to avoid including any income as taxable income. It doesn't matter where you earn the income, if it belongs to you unconditionally (or if you receive a benefit, e.g., the corporation buys you the car - it's still taxable to you) then you have to include that amount as taxable income (regardless of where you deposit that income - be it a russian account, malaysian account, or US account). In some situations an individual can offset foreign source income with foreign tax credits.

With corporations there is alot more flexibility in reducing taxable income. There is also deferral planning so that a US person can postpone inclusion of income of US owned foreign corporations, but that amount is eventually included in the income of the US shareholders.

EDIT: i can think of at least one way to avoid paying taxes currently.

i hate that i need to keep writing this disclaimer, but no attorney client relationship is intended to be formed.

Last edited by jerZ07002 on Nov-11-2008 at 22:03

No taxation without representation. If you voted, pay your bloody taxes.

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 bottom line is that it's very very difficult for an individual (EDIT: living in the US) to avoid including any income as taxable income. It doesn't matter where you earn the income, if it belongs to you unconditionally (or if you receive a benefit, e.g., the corporation buys you the car - it's still taxable to you) then you have to include that amount as taxable income (regardless of where you deposit that income - be it a russian account, malaysian account, or US account). In some situations an individual can offset foreign source income with foreign tax credits. With corporations there is alot more flexibility in reducing taxable income. There is also deferral planning so that a US person can postpone inclusion of income of US owned foreign corporations, but that amount is eventually included in the income of the US shareholders. EDIT: i can think of at least one way to avoid paying taxes currently. i hate that i need to keep writing this disclaimer, but no attorney client relationship is intended to be formed.

yeah man that's cool... if you gotta put the disclaimer than you gotta do it, but I'm definitely not using this dialogue for legal purposes. Besides, $400 per hour is steep So... now that my parade has been officially rained on (probably for my benefit), I guess I might as well face the fact that the whole certainty statement about death and taxes holds true.