Become a part of the TranceAddict community!Frequently Asked Questions - Please read this if you haven'tSearch the forums
TranceAddict Forums > Main Forums > Music Discussion > Michael Jackson
Pages (16): « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 [9] 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 »   Last Thread   Next Thread
Share
Author
Thread    Post A Reply
woscar
Starstuff



Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Guatemala, Guatemala

quote:
Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
I'm not talking about this thread. You seem to have made it your manifesto to be abrasive in the past few months.

And I like Michael Jackson. Can You Feel It, Thriller, Billy Jean, Smooth Criminal and Beat It are all pop favourites of mine, to name but a few. I'm actually capable of seperating my biases from historical fact, which a lot of people in this thread aren't.

The fact is that people in this thread have called him a god, have pulled the jealousy card and have said he pioneered modern dancing. All of these claims and more are ludicrous, and I'm making a case in opposition to them. You might not have made any of those claims, but saying "You sound butt hurt, you raped child" is not a constructive response to my arguments and neither is it funny. It's a long streak of dehydrated piss across the wall of this thread, and if you don't have anything to actually say then you can fuck off, because you're neither intimidating nor impressing me with your Internet Hardman Act.

If you've got an argument, make it. Otherwise, save your keyboard from the strokes, lest you need them one day, because your reheated sarcasm is going to waste on me. Jackson is not on the same level as the acts I've described, and if anyone in this thread can muster an argument to the contrary, I'd like to hear it. Otherwise, you're being plain old fashioned Fanboys, and if this were a Tiesto thread you'd be cumming in your pants in your enthusiasm to shoot it down.

And Tom Savini is an SFX legend.


Fuck dude, you need to relax a bit. Not everything you read on the internet is to be taken seriously. As much as it flatters me that you've paid so close attention to my posts, I'd hate to break it to you that I'm not trying to sound or look like anything other than myself. It's a bit ironic that the one that is actually pulling off the "Internet Hardman Act" is you.

I already made my argument, and yet you chose to ignore it and write an elongated "I'm not taking shit from nobody" manifesto, LOL.

Anyways, back on topic...

You listed The Beatles as artists that have truly influenced music in your eyes. Well, do you really think The Beatles weren't influenced by anyone? Like every single artist/musician/writer/film-maker that has ever lived, The Beatles have borrowed elements from other artists before them. Hell, one of their most famous songs (if not the most famous), "Twist and Shout" is a cover from The Top Notes. It was then covered by The Isley Brothers, which is really the version The Beatles covered. So there you have it, The Beatles borrowed something from R&B, made it better, and sold it better. There's even people today that are old enough to have seen The Beatles in their prime that have no idea that "Twist and Shout" is a cover, even though The Isley Brothers' version was popular on its own. Why? Because of the reasons I just listed. Who left a mark here? The original songwriters, performers, or The Beatles?

The Beatles borrowed from everywhere. From other English bands like The Byrds, to The Beach Boys, to reggae. "Obla Di, Obla Da", rings a bell?

Does this make them any less worthy of the praise they always receive? No.

Is their influence on music suddenly invalid? No.

The Beatles, like Michael Jackson borrowed things from other artists before them. And not only did they did it better, they ended up heavily influencing an entire generation of people, not only musically but culturally in a way that is still present today.

Michael Jackson might owe his existence to Motown and Disco, just like all the Ushers, Justin Timberlakes, and Will Smiths owe their existence to Michael Jackson. Denying it only displays one of two things: ignorance or stubborness.


___________________

My Set Archive - MY BLOG

Old Post Jul-02-2009 03:00 
Click Here to See the Profile for woscar Click here to Send woscar a Private Message Visit woscar's homepage! Add woscar to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
enydo
~



Registered: Jan 2008
Location: NYC

oh shit this thread is gonna get tasty

Old Post Jul-02-2009 03:01 
Click Here to See the Profile for enydo Click here to Send enydo a Private Message Add enydo to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
trancesept
tranceaddict



Registered: Oct 2005
Location: Los Angeles, USA

ey man people are profiting off his death... so in this situation its win win

Old Post Jul-02-2009 04:46  United States
Click Here to See the Profile for trancesept Click here to Send trancesept a Private Message Visit trancesept's homepage! Add trancesept to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
SYSTEM-J
IDKFA.



Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Manchester

quote:
Originally posted by woscar
Hell, one of their most famous songs (if not the most famous), "Twist and Shout" is a cover from The Top Notes.


Twist And Shout is not one of the most famous Beatles songs.

Saying "everyone got influenced from somewhere" is missing the point. I'm well aware of that. The point is that The Beatles made something genuinely new out of their influences. They started off writing teen-friendly pop but within a few years they were using their success to experiment heavily.

They redefined what the artist album meant in music, they all but invented the concept album, they kick-started world music by going over to India, they helped pioneer psychedelic pop and they made motherfucking Revolution 9, bringing the idea of sampling and sample collage to public attention years before hip-hop.

Without them, modern rock music as we understand it just wouldn't exist. If you compare the genre before The Beatles to the genre after The Beatles you can see their influence. As I've already said: Michael Jackson just can't make a claim like that.

The difference between MJ's influence and The Beatles' (or Kraftwerk's, etc.) is that MJ just spread ideas through being very popular. The Beatles actually innovated and broke new ground. Your logic essentially says that who actually did something first doesn't matter. Credit should be given for whichever famous person jumps on an existing idea.


___________________
Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

Old Post Jul-02-2009 10:31  England
Click Here to See the Profile for SYSTEM-J Click here to Send SYSTEM-J a Private Message Visit SYSTEM-J's homepage! Add SYSTEM-J to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Zombie0915




Registered: Jul 2001
Location:

maybe if I can somehow get my ass and ankles to be large, without any ofhter parts of me getting big, I can do that 45 degree lean without the special shoes, hmmm

Old Post Jul-02-2009 12:42  United States
Click Here to See the Profile for Zombie0915 Click here to Send Zombie0915 a Private Message Add Zombie0915 to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
woscar
Starstuff



Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Guatemala, Guatemala

quote:
Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
The difference between MJ's influence and The Beatles' (or Kraftwerk's, etc.) is that MJ just spread ideas through being very popular. The Beatles actually innovated and broke new ground. Your logic essentially says that who actually did something first doesn't matter. Credit should be given for whichever famous person jumps on an existing idea.


No, that was not my point. This whole debate started out of "influence". i don't know how you managed to turn it into a debate about creativity. You argued that Michael Jackson didn't influence anyone, that he didn't write most of his songs and that copied other people before him, but with better marketing and larger exposure.

My point was that it's irrelevant that most of his songs were written by other people, or that he didn't invent the moonwalk. The fact is, he was the one that made those things popular, and therefore he was the one that actually influenced a shitload of singers/dancers/performers that came after him. Such influence is undeniable.

The difference between The Beatles and Michael Jackson, regarding influence, is that The Beatles left a mark on and inspired much better musicians and artists than Michael Jackson.


___________________

My Set Archive - MY BLOG

Old Post Jul-02-2009 16:13 
Click Here to See the Profile for woscar Click here to Send woscar a Private Message Visit woscar's homepage! Add woscar to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
MrJiveBoJingles
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Jun 2004
Location: U.S.

quote:
Originally posted by Zombie0915
maybe if I can somehow get my ass and ankles to be large, without any ofhter parts of me getting big, I can do that 45 degree lean without the special shoes, hmmm

This is great, we have two people going at it over how influential and innovative Michael Jackson was, and in the midst of it a guy obsessed with doing "the lean."

Old Post Jul-02-2009 16:29  United States
Click Here to See the Profile for MrJiveBoJingles Click here to Send MrJiveBoJingles a Private Message Add MrJiveBoJingles to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
trancesept
tranceaddict



Registered: Oct 2005
Location: Los Angeles, USA

quote:
Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
This is great, we have two people going at it over how influential and innovative Michael Jackson was, and in the midst of it a guy obsessed with doing "the lean."



dont forget me im trying to figure out the

1. Michael Jackson dies
2. ????
3. PROFIT!

Old Post Jul-02-2009 16:36  United States
Click Here to See the Profile for trancesept Click here to Send trancesept a Private Message Visit trancesept's homepage! Add trancesept to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
ziptnf
Programming your future



Registered: Jun 2008
Location: Louisville, KY

I fucking hate the Beatles.


___________________

Set Archive | TA DJ Challenge

Old Post Jul-02-2009 17:02 
Click Here to See the Profile for ziptnf Click here to Send ziptnf a Private Message Visit ziptnf's homepage! Add ziptnf to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Trance-M
Since 1994 tranceaddict



Registered: Oct 2005
Location: Limburg, Netherlands

quote:
Originally posted by woscar
My point was that it's irrelevant that most of his songs were written by other people, or that he didn't invent the moonwalk. The fact is, he was the one that made those things popular, and therefore he was the one that actually influenced a shitload of singers/dancers/performers that came after him. Such influence is undeniable.


I totally agree with that.


quote:
Originally posted by woscar
The difference between The Beatles and Michael Jackson, regarding influence, is that The Beatles left a mark on and inspired much better musicians and artists than Michael Jackson.


That's something which IMO is very difficult to proof. Even what's 'better' is a discussion on its own.

I also don't see why they must be compared. Both had huge influence, but at another time and in a different way.


___________________

Longest (classic) Trance playlist on YouTube (5000 tracks released up to and including 1997), click here

Last edited by Trance-M on Jul-02-2009 at 20:12

Old Post Jul-02-2009 19:09  Netherlands
Click Here to See the Profile for Trance-M Click here to Send Trance-M a Private Message Add Trance-M to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
SYSTEM-J
IDKFA.



Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Manchester

quote:
Originally posted by woscar
My point was that it's irrelevant that most of his songs were written by other people, or that he didn't invent the moonwalk. The fact is, he was the one that made those things popular, and therefore he was the one that actually influenced a shitload of singers/dancers/performers that came after him. Such influence is undeniable.


Made what things popular? Apart from the moonwalk, what exactly did MJ make popular that wasn't popular before? Motown, disco and synth pop: all popular already before Jackson worked in them. That's my point. I've established that he worked in pre-defined areas. I'm pointing out he didn't actually bring anything new to them.

His only real influence beyond ensuring that a lot of male pop stars danced (and that's the only connection between MJ and Will Smith I can think of) was making a lot of kids sat at home say "I want to be a pop star!" Massive artistic accomplishment.


___________________
Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

Last edited by SYSTEM-J on Jul-02-2009 at 20:59

Old Post Jul-02-2009 19:55  England
Click Here to See the Profile for SYSTEM-J Click here to Send SYSTEM-J a Private Message Visit SYSTEM-J's homepage! Add SYSTEM-J to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
SMC
custom title addict



Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Sweden

I completely agree with SYSTEM-J. Michael Jackson was famous, that's all. There was nothing innovative or interesting about "his" music, and he made what, two or three albums that are considered important in pop, so he wasn't even a prolific artist. He had all the money and time in the world, if there was anything artistically credible in him we would have heard it, he sure had the freedom to create. Instead people got to see the decay of a human being so terrible he destroyed himself, not that it has anything to do with the music. He did have a singing voice, an annoying one if you ask me, and an annoying, overblown way of using it on top of that. Absolute bullshit.

Old Post Jul-02-2009 20:56 
Click Here to See the Profile for SMC Click here to Send SMC a Private Message Add SMC to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message

TranceAddict Forums > Main Forums > Music Discussion > Michael Jackson
Post New Thread    Post A Reply

Pages (16): « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 [9] 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 »  
Last Thread   Next Thread
Click here to listen to the sample!Pause playback[1969] []

Click here to listen to the sample!Pause playback[1969]

Show Printable Version | Subscribe to this Thread
Forum Jump:

All times are GMT. The time now is 09:02.

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
[IMG] code is ON
 
Search this Thread:

 
Contact Us - return to tranceaddict

Powered by: Trance Music & vBulletin Forums
Copyright ©2000-2026, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Privacy Statement / DMCA
Support TA!