quote:

Originally posted by noikeee I thought they had already found bacteria in Mars?

Negative.

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quote:

Originally posted by Fledz Negative.

Yes, actually, they have.

It's just a world-government conspiracy covering it all up, mostly due to pressure from the Vatican.

You're so naive.

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amazing - thanks for that.

quote:

Originally posted by Sunsnail Isn't the sun and the solar systems the product of a previous star's supernova or such? So we're not even first generation

Yup. We're the descendants of stars, if you think about it.

quote:

Originally posted by stren Very small ? i wouldn't say that. Life on earth is pretty young compared to the age of the universe. With such a large number of stars and solar systems there are bound to be planets able to support life in many of them. Hell, even our solar system had 2 planets able to support it (Mars being the second one). Chances are there are less intelligent and more intelligent life forms out there.

I disagree. Too many things have to go right for life to develop on a planet. Every factor that contributes to the growth of life minimizes the chances a little bit more. To reach intelligent life even more things have to go right. By then the chances would be tiny.

Last edited by infinity HiGH on Sep-03-2009 at 20:30

quote:

Originally posted by infinity HiGH Yup. We're the descendants of stars, if you think about it. I disagree. Too many things have to go right for life to develop on a planet. Every factor that contributes to the growth of life minimizes the chances a little bit more. To reach intelligent life even more things have to go right. By then the chances would be tiny.

i doubt it.. just look at convergent evolution for example.

what are the chances that wings evolve on both bats and birds. Or eyes evolve on both deutorostomes (vertebrates) and protostomes.

once you have bacteria your set.. or even amino acids via chemical evolution.


You remind me of those people who say.. OH IF BEES GO EXTINCT WE ARE ALL FUCKED.
Even if we nuke this planet 500 times life will presist i guarantee it.

quote:

Originally posted by infinity HiGH I disagree. Too many things have to go right for life to develop on a planet. Every factor that contributes to the growth of life minimizes the chances a little bit more. To reach intelligent life even more things have to go right. By then the chances would be tiny.

This is a misconception. It assumes that the only way intelligent life is the evolutionary path we took. You actually have no idea how likely intelligent life is, at all.

Another common misconception is that it's incredibly unlikely that life on Earth exists at all. A lot of religious sceptics point out that life began here far quicker than it should have done, and that the odds of that happening here are incredibly tiny. They are, but the odds of winning the lottery in this country are 14,000,000:1, and yet someone wins the lottery every week.

If you look at the .gif iTranscendence posted early in the thread, there are potentially 10,000,000,000,000,000 stars in one comparatively tiny section of space observed by Hubble. The number of stars in the whole universe is unfathomable. The amount of planets where life could form is vast. So while it may be incredibly unlikely that life started so early on Earth, it's not impossible. Our planet just happened to win the lottery.

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amino acids were created from basic elements in the miller urey experiment which simulated low oxygen earth.. These amino acids form proteins which make up organisms.

chemical evolution is hypotesized to have begun shortly after earths formation. from there to prokaryotes it took about 1 billion years or so.

2 billion years after that you have multicelular organsism (eukaryotes)
then 500 million years ago the cambrian explosion which brought more complex multicelluar organisms and most of the 42 phyla that exist today.


so from basic elements carbon hydrogen oxygen and nitrogen its presumed RNA, precursor to dna, was formed in the oxygen reduced environment.

that took 4 billion years or so

now we have a 17 billion or so old universe and 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 or so stars multiplied by 5 presumed planets per start i would say and you have that many planets which could have had those elements present.

plus we don't know how often the universe has recirculated and which big bang we're in. so that increases the probability even more.

quote:

Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit i doubt it.. just look at convergent evolution for example. what are the chances that wings evolve on both bats and birds. Or eyes evolve on both deutorostomes (vertebrates) and protostomes. once you have bacteria your set.. or even amino acids via chemical evolution.

What the fuck are you talking about? Once you have bacteria you're set for what? As far as we know to reach intelligent life it takes a freaking long time. Bacteria doesn't set or guarantee anything, except that there's microscopic life, which I don't doubt exists somewhere out there.

quote:

You remind me of those people who say.. OH IF BEES GO EXTINCT WE ARE ALL FUCKED. Even if we nuke this planet 500 times life will presist i guarantee it.

lol how the fuck is any of this relevant? What I'm saying has absolutely nothing to do with that.

Last edited by infinity HiGH on Sep-04-2009 at 19:29

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J This is a misconception. It assumes that the only way intelligent life is the evolutionary path we took. You actually have no idea how likely intelligent life is, at all.

It doesn't assume anything but simply goes by what we know. You can theorize all you want about the various different methods of life developing but up until we observe it happening, it'll all be left for sci-fi novels to mull about.

quote:

Originally posted by infinity HiGH It doesn't assume anything but simply goes by what we know.

No. You said "Too many things have to go right..." You don't know that. What we know doesn't tell us that. You can't work out any kind of probability from what we know, because we know only about life on one planet.

We haven't even defined what constitutes "intelligent life". If you're talking about aliens that build cities and have wars then you're probably right, but the odds are that any life we might encounter will probably be radically different to life on Earth in the first place.

Intelligence could be an inevitable product of evolution, it could be one very unlikely product. You don't know and neither do I.

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