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Originally posted by cryophonik I don't think you're coming across as rude, just firm in your opinion and there's nothing wrong with that. I probably half agree with much of what you're saying. But, I think that there's a disconnect between using samples and your last point above. A track can have longevity and a LOT of playtime even though it uses samples (MC Hammer - 'Can't Touch This', anybody?). What makes a track memorable IMO is NOT the tools used to create it, it's the emotional response that it strikes in the listener, and that's a result of having good songwriting skills and the ability to deliver excellent performances (even if the "performance" was written in the piano roll ).

A point that bears repeating, especially on this forum.

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Originally posted by dj_alfi change your avatar for fucks sake.

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Originally posted by owien my time has been largely spent learning a pro daw and making all my own sounds apart from the 909 kick drum i use witch i still spent fucking ages on to make sure it fits with the rest of my productions.

It'll be interesting to hear this 909 kick drum. Sample sets have such a massive range of kick drums, it's hard to imagine another producer who wanted to copy your sound wouldn't be able to find a sample that's extremely close, tweak it slightly, and end up with an almost identical sound.

The bit about calling producers who use samples "lazy" is inaccurate. A producer may be putting in 50 or more hours per week into their music, and choose to allocate their hours differently to you - rather than spending hours on designing drum samples, they'll spend those hours on composition, or on crafting the flow of the song.

Some people may draw in all their volume automation by hand, and call anyone who ever uses a compressor "lazy", since they're doing something easier to achieve the same result. Well, good luck to them. In the end, all that matters is the end result, not how it was achieved.

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Originally posted by derail It'll be interesting to hear this 909 kick drum. Sample sets have such a massive range of kick drums, it's hard to imagine another producer who wanted to copy your sound wouldn't be able to find a sample that's extremely close, tweak it slightly, and end up with an almost identical sound. The bit about calling producers who use samples "lazy" is inaccurate. A producer may be putting in 50 or more hours per week into their music, and choose to allocate their hours differently to you - rather than spending hours on designing drum samples, they'll spend those hours on composition, or on crafting the flow of the song. Some people may draw in all their volume automation by hand, and call anyone who ever uses a compressor "lazy", since they're doing something easier to achieve the same result. Well, good luck to them. In the end, all that matters is the end result, not how it was achieved.

yes it's all about using time wisely i agree and i now also see why people may say sound design is not really a important part of it. i;m not trying to forse people here to do that.

their are many areas of music producthion as you stated above witch are just a improtant true enough.

bottom line is i'm not affraid to make tunes that are differnt to everybody else even if they dont get it or its a we bit under par where quatly is concerned

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Originally posted by owien yes it's all about using time wisely i agree and i now also see why people may say sound design is not really a important part of it. i;m not trying to forse people here to do that. their are many areas of music producthion as you stated above witch are just a improtant true enough. bottom line is i'm not affraid to make tunes that are differnt to everybody else even if they dont get it or its a we bit under par where quatly is concerned

why would you want to make sub-par tunes, just because they are different???

i found this piece a few days ago whilst on kvr - interesting read link

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Originally posted by evo8 why would you want to make sub-par tunes, just because they are different??? i found this piece a few days ago whilst on kvr - interesting read link

it's a fair point for sure but when i say i wish to do something orignal i simply mean i'm prepared to stop and try and do something less obvious.

if i feal the track deserves a weird glitch noise then i will make it in a way that's fitting but with a twist.

and no i dont want to make sub-par tracks just because it like wow so different to any other track.

i just simply meen i will not worry to much if its not like super sqeeky clean.
thats what logic is for lol

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Originally posted by owien well you got one over me then i guess. and to address your point about m.i.k.e the reason his sound is down to pat is because he spent time on creating it witch is my hole fuckin point.

Except you fail to understand he does use samples. Some people just like to be different. I heard a few days ago he doesn't even use reverb it's all delays. To each their own; but don't force it down our throats just because you feel it's the way to go.

Especially when you have no product to back it up and admit that you're struggling to finish things and have contemplated quitting because of the difficulty of what you're speaking about.

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Originally posted by mfitterer1 Except you fail to understand he does use samples. Some people just like to be different. I heard a few days ago he doesn't even use reverb it's all delays. To each their own; but don't force it down our throats just because you feel it's the way to go. Especially when you have no product to back it up and admit that you're struggling to finish things and have contemplated quitting because of the difficulty of what you're speaking about.

i have not at any stage forced my way of thinking on to you or anybody.

if you are happy to let your producthions fall into the genreic field then thats fine.
and thev only reason this thred has gone so long is because i pointed out that in most cases if you make all your own parts or a good 90% of them allows better controll over what you do.

i know plenty of producers who bang out tracks use sample packs to get where they want to be. and thats fine but the sad fact is no one will realy care.

i just dont want my work to fall into that box and i bet most if honest wouldn't either.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by owien
if you are happy to let your producthions fall into the genreic field then thats fine.
QUOTE]

Owien, the reason this thread goes on and on is because amongst your viewpoint of creating everything yourself, you say the odd daft comment like the one above which is of no relation.

Using samples does not mean a track is likely to sound more generic.

If I used all drum samples and you created your own, do you think anyone would know who used what. Do you actually think my drum loop would sound more generic than yours, that your hi hats would somehow sound original, where as mine overused?

For your leads, I use a preset, you create your own. Do you think that by default my lead will sound generic, where as yours innovating?

USING SAMPLES AND PRESETS DOES NOT MAKE A TRACK SOUND MORE GENERIC THAN ONE CREATED ALL FROM SCRATCH!!

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Originally posted by G-Con [QUOTE]Originally posted by owien if you are happy to let your producthions fall into the genreic field then thats fine. QUOTE] Owien, the reason this thread goes on and on is because amongst your viewpoint of creating everything yourself, you say the odd daft comment like the one above which is of no relation. Using samples does not mean a track is likely to sound more generic. If I used all drum samples and you created your own, do you think anyone would know who used what. Do you actually think my drum loop would sound more generic than yours, that your hi hats would somehow sound original, where as mine overused? For your leads, I use a preset, you create your own. Do you think that by default my lead will sound generic, where as yours innovating? USING SAMPLES AND PRESETS DOES NOT MAKE A TRACK SOUND MORE GENERIC THAN ONE CREATED ALL FROM SCRATCH!!

so if you made a riff made up of a preset from sylenth you meen to tell me this is not going to sound any different compaared to one that's made not using a preset. or one swiped from vengence?

please be real for one seconed if everybody is using the same sample packs,presets then how on gods earth is this not genric?

is it any wonder why edm is so stale

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Originally posted by owien so if you made a riff made up of a preset from sylenth you meen to tell me this is not going to sound any different compaared to one that's made not using a preset. or one swiped from vengence? please be real for one seconed if everybody is using the same sample packs,presets then how on gods earth is this not genric? is it any wonder why edm is so stale

You are missing the point. You could spend hours creating a lead sound from scratch. I could load up a preset. By chance they could sound near identical because chances are, whatever sound you create already exists in numerous presets for numerous synths.

Or another senario, you might make a sound from scratch which some people hear and believe it to be a preset they recognise. I use a preset, change the filter cutoff, nothing else, and not one person recognises that sound as a preset.

Presets can sound original and not generic. Your own sounds could well sound very generic and unoriginal.

I actually rarely use presets myself anyway, not because I believe my sounds will be original on my own, but purely because I cant be arsed to trawl through countless presets looking for THAT sound.

However not one sound I have made has sounded any more original than many presets I have heard. They still sound good though. Likewise, when I do trawl through presets I hear many that are inspirational and like nothing I've heard before.

I'll say it one more time - THERE IS NO LINK BETWEEN ORIGINALITY/GENERIC-NESS AND WHETHER A SOUND USED WAS MADE FROM SCRATCH OR NOT

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Originally posted by owien so if you made a riff made up of a preset from sylenth you meen to tell me this is not going to sound any different compaared to one that's made not using a preset. or one swiped from vengence? please be real for one seconed if everybody is using the same sample packs,presets then how on gods earth is this not genric? is it any wonder why edm is so stale

Do you really think edm is stale because people arent making their own kicks and hi-hats?
Dont you think its more to do with a lack of creativity, new ideas etc???

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